Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

iseethestrals

So did the checkout operator have the right to challenge me or do bank allow ur family to use ur card?

James wrote: »

No such thing as a daft question.

Anyone, any age, anywhere, can use a Chip & PIN card with the valid PIN to get money out of ATM's in the UK and worldwide without ever being challenged. OR in ALL chip & PIN retailers with a very slight chance of being challenged.

Anyone, any age, anywhere, can use a CLONED Chip & PIN card with a genuine PIN at most ATMs worldwide and some ATM's in the UK.


Hence the attraction to crooks. The rewards are increased and the risk is decreased.
ATMs do not challenge individuals. ATMs only retain cards REPORTED lost or stolen.

liberty_tiger

BritBrat wrote: »

What's the latest thinking on Chip and Pin?

My bank card will be due for replacing soon but I am not to happy with Chip and Pin as I think it's less secure, yes less secure.

Why do I think that?

Because now you have to enter the pin in to many different places and more often than you did with chip and signature so the risk is greater for people to see/get your pin.

And if banks are washing their hands of any fraud committed when the pin was used leaving the customer to take the loss, what advantage does it have for the customer?

Perhaps it's me, but I'm struggling to see how a Chip & pin card is less secure than the old magnetic stripe & signature card.
A chip in the card makes it MUCH more difficult to clone the card (indeed cloned cards can ONLY be used in locations that don't accept Chip & pin) and the entry of a Pin is much more secure than a signature (a lot of retailers never checked the signatures anyway??).

Goes without saying that we should all look after and keep confidential our PIN's ....... recognising all of the above, if we fail to keep our pin secure by being daft and writing it down, or not being observant about the terminals we're using, or letting the card out of your sight, then I don't have a problem with being held accountable by the Banks. Why should they have to bear the losses for what in effect was MY negligence?

I think we all have a responsibility to prevent fraud. A chip & pin card is IMHO a MUCH better way to pay.

liberty_tiger

iseethestrals wrote: »

So did the checkout operator have the right to challenge me or do bank allow ur family to use ur card?

I believe that YOU have responsibility for YOUR pin. If you choose to share it with the rest of your family (who may in turn inadvertantly disclose it to someone else), then YOU should expect to be held accountable.

If I were a cashier and saw you presenting a card with Mrs on it when you were clearly a Mr, I'd try to do my bit for society and prevention of crime by detaining you and calling the police.

Alfie_E

liberty_tiger wrote: »

Perhaps it's me, but I'm struggling to see how a Chip & pin card is less secure than the old magnetic stripe & signature card.

I think BritBrat is trying to argue that the PIN itself is less secure. Previously, there were two ways transactions were authorised. The use of a PIN was restricted to cash machines. Purchases in shops required a signature. Increasing the frequency with which the PIN is used inevitably increases its vulnerability.

I’m not arguing that Chip and PIN doesn’t have the potential to be more secure. The concern is how banks now react to fraud. You seem to have similar attitude to most banks – Chip and PIN is a bit better, so any fraud is the cardholder’s fault. Something being potentially more secure doesn’t make it invulnerable.

liberty_tiger wrote: »

…not being observant about the terminals we're using…then I don't have a problem with being held accountable by the Banks.

Being eagle-eyed won’t necessarily help, see Chip & PIN terminal playing Tetris.

liberty_tiger wrote: »

A chip in the card makes it MUCH more difficult to clone the card (indeed cloned cards can ONLY be used in locations that don't accept Chip & pin)…

You’ve said that it’s much more difficult to clone a Chip and PIN card. You haven’t said that it’s impossible. Unless it’s impossible to clone the chip, you can’t assert that cloned cards can only be used in places that don’t use Chip and PIN. See Chip & PIN relay attacks.

It’s very important to remember that just because you can’t see how something could be possible doesn’t make it impossible.

campins

I must say I do find the chip and pin system a bit of a nuisance in the shops. Additionally, when following the guidelines of covering up the keypad as I type my pin, seems to unsettle people standing nearby and occasionally the shop keeper themselves. It`s about time the card kept a picture of you in the microchip, which, the shop keeper could see when the card was fitted to the keyboard.

James

Sandra Quinn at Apacs has the following advice for fraud victims whose claims are rejected: 'You need to put pressure on your bank to explain why they are saying you did these transactions yourself. There are lots of ways someone can fraudulently get at your Pin and card. I would want their decision justified to me. It's ridiculous.'

Story click here.

James

The correct card and PIN appear to have been used in the transaction.

As a result, some disgruntled but honest customers are being left empty handed by their banks as they are being told that they have either carried out the transaction themselves or are accused of being negligent with their PIN.

Story click here.

BritBrat

Alfie_E wrote:

The use of a PIN was restricted to cash machines. Purchases in shops required a signature. Increasing the frequency with which the PIN is used inevitably increases its vulnerability.

I’m not arguing that Chip and PIN doesn’t have the potential to be more secure. The concern is how banks now react to fraud. You seem to have similar attitude to most banks – Chip and PIN is a bit better, so any fraud is the cardholder’s fault. Something being potentially more secure doesn’t make it invulnerable

Yes that is what I was getting at, the more you use the pin the more chance of someone getting to know it, contacted my bank to ask how I stood should my card be used with the pin and was basicly told it will be my fault.

I have now changed to Chip and signature but so far not been able to get my card to work in a hole in the wall.

Should it work?

Did a Google, looks like Chip and Signature do not work in cash machines (no pin). So far that is the only downside of the card as I don't mind using it a few times to get cash but not every time you use the card.

Now I need to work out what to do to get cash out of wall when required.

I may open another account with minimal funds or see if I can have two cards one pin one signature, but I don't think they will like that idea.

DesG

BritBrat wrote: »

Now I need to work out what to do to get cash out of wall when required.

I use my debit card for getting cash out of the wall, it is a chip and pin card.

Anything else I use my chip and signature credit cards for.

So I am only using my pin as often as I was before C&P.

Cheers, Des.

BritBrat

DesG wrote:

I use my debit card for getting cash out of the wall, it is a chip and pin card.

Anything else I use my chip and signature credit cards for.

So I am only using my pin as often as I was before C&P.

Cheers, Des.

Are you saying you have two cards on the same account?

EDIT

Oh I see, you use Chip and Signature credit cards.

That sounds like a good idea, did you have any problem getting signature credit cards?