Chip 'n' Pin - A Quick Guide Discussion Area

System

Has anyone else had much luck changing their default PIN to a more memorable number using an ATM ?

I have recently had a Halifax One credit card whcih is C&P, but despite using five different ATM on five different occasions, at the end of the process all I get is "unable to process transaction" message.

VelvetGlove

Used my HSBC switch chip & pin card in a luggage shop in Bath last week. The guy shocked me a bit when he took my card then said to me, 'what's your pin?' I just looked at him & said 'Pardon!' He then pointed to the keypad on the till which I hadn't even noticed & I tapped my number in. The keypad was quite mobile & had shields on 3 sides to protect casual observance of the number typed in but I still shielded in with my other hand.

Super fast transaction & very simple to use. Can't wait until it becomes more widespread!

James

Wonder if you'd be just as keen on a PIN with your credit card if you were a victim of PIN based fraud?

Todays Times (Money) warrants a read.

Banks Insist That ATMs Are Safe. (Can be found at https://www.timesonline.co.uk (search for Credit Card Fraud on the Times site)



James

System

Has any other reader of this forum asked their card issuer about Chip & Signature, or applied for a Chip n Signature Card?  
James

I have a Chip & PIN ATM/cheque guarantee/Switch card and a Chip & Signature VISA card from the same bank.

I will never use the Switch card in a shop (thus not exposing myself to the risk of compromising the PIN), and never need to use the VISA card in an ATM.

My bank gave the Chip & Signature VISA card just to shut me up and stop asking awkward questions.

James

The following web site is well worth a visit:

Fishy & Chips

(http://ex-parrot.com/~chris/wwwitter/20040711-fishy_and_chips.html)


James

System

one benefit is for people like me - im 18 and only recently have had to start signing my name for various things where it actually looking like my signature is important, and mine does tend to vary a bit!

James

The following is an extract from the British Bankers Assoc. web page. (Banking Code)

10.2 If you do not recognise a card transaction which appears on your statement, we will give you more details if you ask us. In some cases, we will need you to give us confirmation or evidence that you have not authorised a transaction.

This is designed to cover all circumstances when a customer may query a card transaction - whether a single debit or credit card transaction, an ATM transaction, or a continuing payment authority transaction. Whilst in some cases, for example a disputed single card transaction or ATM transaction, the subscriber will need to investigate and recover copy vouchers, etc, in other cases, particularly in recurring transactions, the customer may need to provide evidence that they have in fact cancelled the authority. If a customer has cancelled the authority for a recurring transaction to be taken from their account and can evidence this, no mandate exists for payment to be made. Subscribers should tell customers what evidence, such as copy letters, will be needed. Each subscriber should determine what it needs to prove a claim, but audit trails, systems checks, ATM cameras, and the sending of cards by registered post or courier could all be considered.


Banks are saying ATMs are being fitted with CCTV, to deter fraud and resolve distputed transactions. Will (Chip & PIN compliant) retailers being doing likewise. If not how will victims of PIN type fraud prove they weren't negligent with their PIN?

James

James

Chip & Signature - update.

From Egg, Chip & PIN, FAQs.
Do I have to have a Chip and PIN card?
Yes. All your credit and debit cards will gradually be replaced with Chip and PIN cards over the next two years. If you feel there are circumstances why you cannot use a Chip and PIN card and you'd like to be issued with a Chip and signature Egg Card instead, please get in touch. We can review this on an individual basis.

From Nationwide, About Us, Accessibility.
Chip and PIN technology and disabled people
Chip and PIN technology will have benefits for many disabled people. However, a small number of people may find it difficult, or impossible, to use a PIN. Customers in this position may request a Chip and Signature card to allow them to use their debit or credit cards without the use of a PIN. This card will allow people to continue to authorise transactions by signature. If a disability prevents you from using a PIN, please ask for a Chip and Signature card. Your local branch will be pleased to help you, or contact Nationwide's Call Centre on 08457 30 20 10.

Well done Egg & Nationwide, although information provided by Nationwide is, in my humble opinion a wee bit misleading. (Nationwide infer that you have to be disabled, find it impossible or difficult to use a PIN) yet a PIN is not a legal requirement.
These two card issuers, as far as I am aware are the only two that volunteer information on Chip & Signature Cards.

I would really appreciate feedback from anyone applying for Chip & Signature Cards.

Nationwides form for a Chip & Signature Card is called a 'Special Needs' form.

James

System

I lived in France for a year in 1991, they had this system already. Again this country lagging behind. It makes perfect sense and im delighted to see it here at last ;D

I used to work in the Credit Card industry for 5 years, as a Helpdesk Consultant for one of the big 5 Merchant Acquirers, basically providing telephone support for credit card terminals and till systems.

I left that job in August 2003, just as our Merchant Acquirer was starting it's Chip & Pin trials in Northampton.

From the briefings I had before I left, what Sarahsaver stated above is the reason Chip & Pin is being introduced over here. In France the Chip & Pin equivalent (used on all Credit Cards and the Carte Bleu) cut credit card fraud by 70%. I lived in france for a couple of years 93-94 and remeber seeing the system frequently.

The APACS electronic payment scheme (I think I remember correctly that it stands for "Asscociation of Payment and Clearing services" - the credit/debit card industry's governing body) finally gave the go ahead a couple of years ago in this country, mainly due to the spiralling cost of fraud (I dealt with quite a few fraud cases during my 5 years in the job - amazing how much of it is going on).

Spoke to my old work colleagues the other day, apparently, without naming names, some Merchant Acquirers are further ahead in the Chip & Pin roll out than others, and whilst problems are being ironed out it will still only effect "1 in 'x' " transactions for each card scheme. I am meeting up with them in a couple of weeks, so shall attempt to obtain some further inside information.

This is why you will have been requested to input your pin in some shops, and not in other shops, and why the person in front of you might have to input their pin, and you might have to sign the old fashioned way.

Having been involved in the roll-out and seen the previous system from the industry's perspective, and as a shopper, once the problems have been ironed out, and the public gets used to the idea (a la decimilisation)it should be a much safer system.  :D

James

Covered in previous postings:

The French system. An APACS spokesperson in a recent report in the Times said that the French Chip & PIN system is used with debit and not credit cards. The spokespeson failed to mention that the French system had been successfully hacked and all cards had to be replaced. The French system claims to have reduced fraud by 70%, but what about the remaining 30%, where did it leave the victims. Do French chip & PIN cards have the same terms and conditions attached as UK cards. If your card is used fraudulently with a PIN before you report it lost (or cloned), then victims are left with a lot of stress over usually months before things are clearded up. (It takes days to sort out with a signature). Credit cards are normally far more valuable to a crook than a debit card, although they can get cash back of up to £50 with a debit card. A PIN with a valid (or in some cases cloned) card is a 'must have,' item for any crook. They can use these cards until the card is rejected at point of sale or with-held at a cash machine. Who will spot and stop fraudsters in future? Where will it leave the victim?

Lets examine the cost of card fraud from a retailers perspective (implementing Chip & PIN is a business decision and not compulsory).

Total estimated fraud losses in 2002 at retail point of sale = £200 million

Of this amout and estimated £105 million was due to the use of counterfeit cards and the remaining £95 million due to stolen or lost cards being used before they were blocked (reported lost).

Cost of the UK system, an estimated £1.1 billion (that was two years ago).

Chips in this country are 'sold' to retailers as having the ability of supporting add-on features, what are they? Do French Chipped cards offer add-ons, or is their chip merely there to deter counterfeit?

Chips will deter the use of counterfeit cards but only if ALL point of sale terminals and ATMs are upgraded to read chips.

The window of opportunity for the fraudulent use of lost or stolen cards will close slightly. Blocks will be
put on these cards in near real time in most but not all cases.

All cards will still be vulnerable to fraud. It could be argued that a PIN will deter the opportunist thief, it could also be argued that a PIN will be a far more attractive proposition. Crooks don't have to brave it out when their using a stolen card and PIN, they have the choice of hitting an ATM to withdraw hard cash (not previously offered with most credit cards) and finding out just how much is in a debit account.

Banks insist that using an ATM is safe, and they are taking precautions to build consumer confidence by have CCTV in operation and painting no go zones around cash-points. Will retailers do the same?

No doubt Chips will reduce fraud levels as will a Signature with a chipped card or a PIN with a chipped card, PIN or Signature is a choice, its just consumers aren't aware of this fact.

James