HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

Flodd

gjchester wrote: »

I do understand the concept, you signed up to what the salesman sold you as unlimited without reading the small print that defined the FUP as 500MB.

You don't like the FUP of 500MB being sold as unlimited, well sorry the ASA does not agree with you, if you want to complain I gave you the link, but it will be dismessed as they've already ruled on it.,

Unfortunaly because of abuse of a minority Vodafone (and all the other mobile companies) have started to enforce the fair use policy, and you don't like it.

Your beef is with the Salesman who sold it to you as truely unlimited. Vodafone have had the FUP on there POS material for at least a year, you just let yourself be lead by the salesman.

Actually the beef is still with Vodafone as far as I'm concerned. Prior to the 1st June 2010 there was no published pricing structure for breaching the FUP, thus the FUP was in fact a guide not a hard cap, had I been offered a contract where the advertised charge was £5 per 500mb over and above the measly 500mb to start with I wouldn't have signed it and would have selected a provider more in line with my requirements.

I purchase a data heavy phone capable of watching high resolution you tube videos (or actually comedy central or streaming TV) because from time to time that's what I want to do, I didnt purchase it to use as a phone/text device/camera and to wait until I got home to use wifi to view such things and vodafone know this although admitadley they may have underestimated just what a cash cow mobile data is.

Had they left me alone to use the mobile freely and without charge and introduced the above FUP charges for new customers at least we'd have both got what we were expecting.

The problem here is not the FUP in itself, it's simply the charges for breaching it are unfair not to mention un-competetive and those users mis-sold data heavy handets now face the choice of being hit with some very high bills or not using the device as it was intended.

I'l leave you with this... under the current regulations, there's nothing stopping vodafone from changing the £5 charge to a £50 charge. Would you call that reasonable?

khy86

Right i have now got two text messages this month saying that i am going to get charged the £5, i am annoyed that they have not told me that i can cancel.

Anyway as it seems there is a standard letter going around here that everyone is sending Vodafone, i was wondering if someone could link me to that letter and where to send it.

Hopefully that way i can be out of it within the next few days.:T

Flodd

khy86 wrote: »

Right i have now got two text messages this month saying that i am going to get charged the £5, i am annoyed that they have not told me that i can cancel.

Anyway as it seems there is a standard letter going around here that everyone is sending Vodafone, i was wondering if someone could link me to that letter and where to send it.

Hopefully that way i can be out of it within the next few days.:T

'out in a few days?' - Now that's what I call wishful thinking...

The template letter is at www.bitterwallet.com (just search vodafone), i'd recommend sending it recorded and being prepared to send several copies as on at least the first two occasions, despite it being signed for, it will mysteriously disapear.

ajdrools

Hey guys, I've been lurking around this thread and the thread on Vodafone's eforum for a while now. I too have been having issues with Vodafone over the new 'Out of bundle' charging.

I sent off the letter on the 17th of September by recorded post and am still yet to receive a response from them. The only feedback off them I have got is that they actually received the letter (They definitely received it before 1st October).

I tried phoning customer services, emailing and going to a store all of which have got me no where.
I have tried emailing them on both email addresses for the directors office (VodafoneDirectorsOffice@gb.vodafone.co.uk and also vodafonedirectorsoffice@vodafone.com) both of which appear to have simply been ignored by them!

I've met their silly criteria of exceeding 500MB in August for the 10%, receiving the text(s) from them and taking the contract out before the new agreement came in in June!

I'm at a loss of what to do now, apart from possibly taking them to a small claims court. But that seems slightly extreme and unnecessarily stressful!
I'm a student so I really don't want to just cancel my direct debit I really cannot afford any defaults on my credit rating. (Even though it would be a disputed debt, I wouldn't put it past Vodafone to do this)

Does anyone have any advice on what to do next? I've already contacted otello although I doubt they will do much given 90 days hasn't passed since the initial complaint and Vodafone hasnt sent me a dead lock letter (or anything else for that matter apart from customer service emails either ignoring my request and chatting nonsense or just straight lying to me)

This is driving me insane! :mad:

gjchester

ajdrools wrote: »

I've already contacted otello although I doubt they will do much given 90 days hasn't passed since the initial complaint and Vodafone hasnt sent me a dead lock letter

Otello will more than likey jusde this as a commercial decision by Vodafone and not get involved at all.

gjchester

ridethelightning wrote: »

No, his and everyone elses is that it is no longer a FUP but a hard cap. With the FUP you could go over the 500Mb every so often and not get charged, or if you went over too much they could throttle your connection.
My main gripe is the underhanded way voda have gone about changing the terms and how completely useless the CS staff have been.

Flodd wrote: »

Actually the beef is still with Vodafone as far as I'm concerned. Prior to the 1st June 2010 there was no published pricing structure for breaching the FUP, thus the FUP was in fact a guide not a hard cap/

The problem is there is no change to your T&C. There is a change to the Tarrif you pay. It could be said as they have a FUP there was always a CAP there was just no penalty if you went over it.

Interestingly from June 2010 this year EU forced cuts came into force, do you think there is any tie in there, surely not. Am I seeing a conspiracy where there is none, the EU forces one element of subscriber costs down for inter EU calls and then (like before) something that was free to UK residents becomes chargable. Given these data charges have come across all networks at the same time maybe it's true, maybe not.

There has always been a condition that if you exceed the FUP vodafone may charge you, not they have set a charge until now..

It's been on All advertising for the last year or so that the 500mb FUP was in place and they may choose to charge if you go over, it wasn't hidden, again if a salesman told you there was no limit then the salesman is wrong, in thats not Vodafones published terms.

Flodd wrote: »

I'l leave you with this... under the current regulations, there's nothing stopping vodafone from changing the £5 charge to a £50 charge. Would you call that reasonable?

No and it still could be done. And you may have the right to cancel if it goes above the RPI as Orange found out. However again the problem is there was alway a charge it was waived, Like o2 are doing it could be it was a "promotion" or special offer and now thats endedyou have to pay.

I'm not saying its great, it sucks but the long and short of it is it the people who hammered it are to blame for bringing this in. It became an easy target so when the EU forced something down they could go for this.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

gjchester wrote: »

I'm not saying its great, it sucks but the long and short of it is it the people who hammered it are to blame for bringing this in.

I'd like to see some evidence to back this statement up. Granted there are people on this thread who have admitted to purposely abusing their data limit for the sole reason of getting out of their contract, and there is not much we can do about it. I am not saying I condone or disagree with their actions, but I am not aware of anything to back up your position.

It is worth remembering Vodafone started talking about this way back in May and they have said it is a 'commercial decision' which indicates this is more about money than a problem with users overloading their network.

gjchester

CitySlicker wrote: »

I'd like to see some evidence to back this statement up. Granted there are people on this thread who have admitted to purposely abusing their data limit for the sole reason of getting out of their contract, and there is not much we can do about it. I am not saying I condone or disagree with their actions, but I am not aware of anything to back up your position.

It is worth remembering Vodafone started talking about this way back in May and they have said it is a 'commercial decision' which indicates this is more about money than a problem with users overloading their network.

Your right I don't have direct evidence as such. However when you take it in the context of o2's issues last year.

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/news-mobile-wireless/o2-admits-data-network-failure-2837

and that mobile networks are overloaded

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/test_bench/article7076940.ece

then it's clear that a lot of the problems are being caused by more data being used a lot more by a lot more people. However remember thats dongles as well as smart phones.

The data throughput of the networks can't go up to any great degree so the networks have to manage peoples data use. The best way to reduce use is to charge for it, people don't want to pay, so this way they can manage traffic better.

Profit is a part of it but I suspect it's more to control data costs, remember they have to pay for an internet connection for all the phones using data, and that must be shooting up as more people use data services. Yes it will be passed on to the customer, but the huge increase in data driven by smart phones must have caught them off guard.

essex_chris

Well i am not surprised, but i am please to be able to say that this morning i have received a letter confirming my PAC, that i am entitled to cancel without an Early Termination Fee, and that i can retain the equipment.

What a long and arduous hassle filled few months it has been. Am off most likely to T-Mobile, will be paying a tenner a month for 12 months for what i was paying £17.50 for, even with a 50% discount.

Good riddance Vodafone.

Also interesting to note was that no paper copy of my cancellation request was ever received by Vodafone, so clearly their claims that you have to post it in are NONSENSE!

ruggedtoast

gjchester wrote: »

Your right I don't have direct evidence as such. However when you take it in the context of o2's issues last year.

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/news-mobile-wireless/o2-admits-data-network-failure-2837

and that mobile networks are overloaded

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/test_bench/article7076940.ece

then it's clear that a lot of the problems are being caused by more data being used a lot more by a lot more people. However remember thats dongles as well as smart phones.

The data throughput of the networks can't go up to any great degree so the networks have to manage peoples data use. The best way to reduce use is to charge for it, people don't want to pay, so this way they can manage traffic better.

Profit is a part of it but I suspect it's more to control data costs, remember they have to pay for an internet connection for all the phones using data, and that must be shooting up as more people use data services. Yes it will be passed on to the customer, but the huge increase in data driven by smart phones must have caught them off guard.

From the Telegraph article you linked.

“The last two years have been a learning curve for us,” said Derek McManus, O2’s chief technology officer. “We’ve found that phones loaded with apps that exhibit what we term ‘chatty’ behaviour, such as one that looks for Facebook messages, typically connect with the network every eight seconds.” Even if no voice conversation is taking place and the user isn’t surfing the web or downloading data, the average app-laden smartphone is still checking for messages or email over the internet more than seven times a minute.
Each of those checks ties up the software used by the nearest phone mast to “handshake” with the phone, and the mast’s own connection to the network’s national backbone. This potentially denies a connection to another user. It is this repetitive, some would say unnecessary, activity that is slowing and even overwhelming the networks rather than, as is often thought, the increasing amount of data being transmitted over 3G.

Sounds more to me like the networks dont want to upgrade their software or the hardware that processes the connections. And are therefore just doing what telecoms companies always do until competition forces them to offer a better deal.

Charging more for less.

We had all this with adsl. I can understand that if you have 10,000 customers and 3000 of them are constantly torrenting huge, probably illegal files, that will impact unfairly on "normal" users, and throttling is acceptab;e.

Selling an always on smart phone with the benefit of multitudes of apps and social media pograms, and then rationing data so much that customers cant use those functions is not on.

500mb is not "huge", "unlimited", "un-go-overable" or any of the other adjectives that networks currently use to describe a stingy amount of data that basically equates to an watching Eastenders on iPlayer. Some networks charge a quid a meg for going over and this is just blatant profiteering.

Vodafones CEO Guy Laurence stated publicly that he was looking at charging for data as the next revenue stream for Vodafone. And this is it, sell smartphones then rinse customers for using the data.

If Networks cant provide these data services they shouldnt sell the phones, or at least be much more uprfront about the significant limitations they have imposed in their use.