HTC Desire Vodafone 500mb Fair Usage Policy

JimArnold

rorydaredking wrote: »

Why do people keep saying this? 12 months ago, orange introduced an increased a charge and tons of people got out of their contracts hassle free

Similarly T Mobile brazened it out - simply refused to agree that they had changed T&Cs. "The new charges are outside your contract" !

The few that took them to the small claims won and got refunds the rest (99%) just ended up paying for it.

essex_chris

No sooner had i posted here than i received my latest email;

Hi Chris,

Further to my post on CAG Forum on Friday 11th June 2010.

Customers who've received several alerts asking them to moderate their usage without having done so will be contacted by phone to discuss moving to an alternative bundle. Should they decide not to move to a different bundle then at this point they'll be given fourteen days that they'll be charged for the additional data used.

The charges will commence fourteen days after we've notified the customer and should they decide not to accept them they will have fourteen days in which to write to us notifying us that they they don't accept the charges and request the cancellation of their account should the charges increase their next bill by 10% or more.

Although I'm not 100% sure what question three is asking I can clarify that should you be charged at the rates stated on the eForum for additional data then this will increase your bill by more than 10% and as such you'll be able to write to us requesting cancellation within fourteen days from the date we informed you.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Kind regards,

Lee

Web Relations Team

Vodafone UK

I had asked this late Friday morning;

Thank you for your email. It makes sense to ask the following by email as i believe the rules on the eForum and recent notifications mean that any thread would be locked if i asked this on there.

1.) What will contitute informing me of charges of out of bundle mobile internet use? Text message? Receiving my bill? Announcement on the eForum?

2.) When will those charges or that increase apply? Under the terms and conditions i will have to write to you to inform you of my wish to cancel before the increase applies?

3.) Since i pay for out of bundle charges in arrears can you explain to me if being charged for mobile internet at the rate as per the eForum and emailed statements makes any application to cancel without penalty void?

Thanks for your help Lee

Seeing as i've now reached the point of having "commercial reasons" told me me on the phone i figure that referring to specific points in the terms and conditions would help - to some extent quoting the T&Cs in response to being given the commercial reasons line seems like fighting fire with fire to me.

It does seem like after receiving the texts about going over my limit (one of which i have now received at the weekend), then i'll get a call asking if i want to switch to a different tariff (which i don't), then i can write to Vodafone and give 30days notice. Presumably i'll continue to pay £17.50 a month for the last 30days, and try to use my PAC code at a suitable time - or maybe when the PAC code gets used i'll be billed for x/30 of £17.50 ?

I'm going to get 14days notice of charges being applied, and at that time will be eligible to cancel without penalty.

It's all a bit ridiculous really as even if i used 1.5Gb a month for the 12months i have left and Vodafone let me have it for free i'd think that they would be better off - instead i'll get out of 18months of £17.50 a month.

Chances are that i'll simply end up taking my number elsewhere, and getting something like a Desire, maybe the new iPhone, and Vodafone will lose the custom.

All over an apparent attempt to get rid of the tiny proportion of the 3% who are using enough bandwidth to spoil things for everyone else? That scene from Fight Club talking about recalls on faulty car parts seems just about bang on the money!

KevinM2k_2

essex_chris: Be careful about them telling you can cancel if they charge you for going over.. it really depends on your bill and usage. If say this month, you ring a lot of numbers not included in your allowance having the effect of putting you bill up by say £10. Then next month, you do the same but it only puts your bill up by £5 but then you also get charged £5 for your data. The bill would be the same as the one previous and therefore you wouldn't be able to cancel on the 10% ruling. Just be aware of that. They are quite sneaky on this.

N20Y1D

I cant see how they can dispute the fact that these changes leave us the customer at a significant disadvantage.


(d) we change this Agreement to your significant disadvantage including the change or withdrawal of Services (we will tell you if this is the case) and you write to us within one month of us telling you about the change. This does not apply where the change relates to Services which can be cancelled without termination of this Agreement.

essex_chris

Vodafone must be staring down the barrel over this one - if everybody was aware that using over 500mb a month (on most tariffs) would mean being contacted, and then refusing a new price plan meant that you could cancel without penalty it would cost them dearly.

They've obviously decided that it will cost them less to do it this way than simply to honour what they sold. They are gambling on not enough people doing it - you can bet that if a mass exodus started then they would change their mind, but luckily for them it probably won't.

It's silly that we're going to need to wait, but if that's it then i'll just wait. I have enough emails and confirmation. Believe it or not i am still waiting till the end of the month when Lee will be checking my account to make sure that i am going to be charged correctly, and then make a a goodwill offer!

What a crazy situation to be in!

essex_chris

KevinM2k wrote: »

essex_chris: Be careful about them telling you can cancel if they charge you for going over.. it really depends on your bill and usage. If say this month, you ring a lot of numbers not included in your allowance having the effect of putting you bill up by say £10. Then next month, you do the same but it only puts your bill up by £5 but then you also get charged £5 for your data. The bill would be the same as the one previous and therefore you wouldn't be able to cancel on the 10% ruling. Just be aware of that. They are quite sneaky on this.

Lucky for me that my standard bill is £17.50 and i only ever have a few £££s of extra calls.

To think that just over a month ago i had genuine faith that either this would never come to pass or that Vodafone would clarify so that it only effected new customers...

I really am naieve!

KevinM2k_2

Well I was hoping the same, it would of been easy for them to offer all existing users the chance of moving to 1gb and giving up there unlimited data, that would of probably taken about 90% of the complainers, the other 10% could then have been left on the 500mb FUP. Would of been best thing for them as far as i'm concerned. But to be fair, i've had enough of vodafone altogether, I dont want to be a customer of theres anymore.

Flodd

2 more texts received in the last 24 hours... Can't be long now before somebody from vodafone calls me and tried to move me to a 1gb capped tariff...

N20Y1D

I have just received the following i can only guess that she hasnt actually seen the email i sent:

I’m emailing you regarding the complaint you have regarding our data changes.
I believe I have given you the necessary information and would ask you to refer to the link below.
http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/forum-53/announcement-137-updated-10062010-mobile-internet-charging/
At this stage Vodafone will not be releasing customers from their contracts without an early termination fee while we continue monitoring their usage. This is Vodafone’s position at this time, however as stated in my previous email this will be reviewed after we have monitored our customer’s usage. If you did request
Kind regards
Karen Johnson

---

This is the email i sent, but the above reply came in responce to a message sent later:

Many thanks for calling however I refused these calls as I would prefer that all future communications between myself and Vodafone were conducted via email. This is due to me being given incorrect information and also broken promises on numerous occasions over the past few weeks and so that I have a permanent record for future reference.

Your latest post on the eforum mentions:

"From 1st June we will be introducing a free text notification service to let you know when you are coming close to exceeding your 500MB data bundle limit."

However when i took my phone out it was on the back of assurances from Vodafone staff that i would not be charged and that it was only in place to stop tethering, file sharing and the like, where as i am now being penalised for using my phone as it was designed.

The following is taken from a post by Jon_Vodafone on the eforum last year:

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/topic/29065-concerns-over-extremely-low-data-fup-with-magic/page__view__findpost__p__194226

"There is no limit to how much data you can use on the Mobile Internet packs - if you use more than 500MB it does not stop working, and you do not get charged. It is truly unlimited as per the dictionary definition."

"At the end of the day, the only reason the Fair Usage Policy exists, is to allow us to take action against a very small minority of users who are blatantly taking the michael when it comes to what they use their data connections for. These are usually people who are using the phone as a modem, hooked up to a computer which is using file-sharing 24/7, or hosting a website, or streaming an internet radio station - all sorts of things for which they should really have forked out the extra for a proper business account or high-volume solution - but who also don't mind ruining the quality of the service for the rest of us by soaking up all our bandwidth."

And further on in the exact same thread from Jay_Vodafone :

If you want to watch YouTube or listen to the radio, do so. We sell the phone for that purpose so we're not going to thinks it unfair usage if you use it in that way.


I know you will probably reply along the lines of your post on the eforum:


We will now be enforcing our fair use policy / out of bundle charges if our data allowance is continuously exceeded over several months. We have always reserved the right to do this in your Price Plan documentation - however we have never charged our customers.


But as stated above you have told customers that there was no charge for going over to the extent that no standard charge existed. So you have changed the contract, even the mere threat that i may be charged leaves me at a disadvantage as i am now unable to use my phone as it was designed.




(d) we change this Agreement to your significant disadvantage including the change or withdrawal of Services (we will tell you if this is the case) and you write to us within one month of us telling you about the change. This does not apply where the change relates to Services which can be cancelled without termination of this Agreement.


As mentioned not being able to use my phone and the service vodafone provide as it was sold leaves me at a disadvantage. So in view of this i wish to cancel my contract with yourselves without charge.

---

I hereby terminate my pay monthly mobile telephone contract with Vodafone, in accordance with §11 of your May 2009 Pay Monthly airtime agreement terms and conditions.

[FONT=&quot]There are three reasons I am terminating my contract:

[FONT=&quot]1. When I took this contract, Vodafone did not specify any charges for exceeding the Fair Usage Policy allowance, so effectively the charges currently stand as £0.

[FONT=&quot]Information posted on the Vodafone eForums on 6 May 2010 at 3:39 PM states that Vodafone intends to introduce Out Of Bundle charges of £5 for Pay Monthly customers from 1 June 2010. A further post clarified this on 7 May 2010 at 5:00 PM.

[FONT=&quot]The net result is that my agreement with Vodafone will no longer be subject to a Fair Use Policy, as stated in §27 of the Vodafone Your Plan Price Plan Terms.

[FONT=&quot]1. According to §7 of the Pay Monthly airtime agreement, any changes to the agreement, which includes the Vodafone Your Plan Price Plan Terms and out-of-bundle charges, require at least 30 days’ notice. I have received no such notice, and therefore consider Vodafone to be in breach of its agreement.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. According to §11.b if you increase my out-of-bundle internet charges by £5, as intended on the 1st June 2010, and this has the effect of increasing my bill by more than 10% based upon my previous months usage I am entitled to cancel. This will be true as of the 1st June 2010 and is likely to remain true for the duration of my contract.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. The changes to my agreement as outlined above will mean my mobile usage will be subject to out-of-bundle charges and hence, not Fair Use Policy, a change which is to my Significant Disadvantage as it restricts use of data services, specifically mobile applications, for the remainder of my contract. Any attempt to impose them on me without allowing a penalty–free right to cancel, is unfair and unenforceable as a matter of law. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]§11.b of the Pay monthly airtime agreement states I may end my agreement if such changes cause Significant Disadvantage. Furthermore, these automatic charges offend §(i)-(l) inclusive of Schedule 2 and §5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2 (1) “(l) …allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded”.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You will be aware of Ofcom’s Guidance that this is objectionable “under continuing contracts where consumers are 'captive' – that is, they have no penalty-free right to cancel” but you have not seen fit to comply with Ofcom’s advice that to be fair; Any kind of variation clause may in principle be fair if consumers are free to escape its effects by ending the contract. To be genuinely free to cancel, they must not be left worse off for having entered the contract, whether by experiencing financial loss (for example, forfeiture of a prepayment) or serious inconvenience, or any other adverse consequences.” [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I now exercise my legal right to cancel the contract due to your breach of agreed terms, your automatic charges and the Significant Disadvantage that they cause. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I reject as unfair your attempt to artificially limit the right to cancel to some scenarios and not others in the face of the clear legislation and regulatory guidance and General Condition 9. Any attempt to claim a penalty and in particular a cancellation charge will be resisted. These terms are also unfair and therefore non-binding and unenforceable. Any claim for them will be disputed and you will need a Court Order to obtain payment of them. I will defend any legal proceedings for such sums under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. [/FONT]


Regards
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Yolina

You just know what they're going to say, don't you... the standard "we haven't changed anything" followed by a threat to trash your credit record if you refuse to pay the ETF, at which point you might want to kindly remind them that they're not legally allowed to default your account if you put the amount in dispute...