Flexible new deal stages and signing off to reclaim

codwidow

I thought you could be referred to FND at 6 or 12 months into claiming JSA/Ni credits ?

Most mortgage policies have a 30 day excess period before the benefit kicks in so if you have been out of work for 12 months you will expect to get your final mortgage protection payment a month later

donnajunkie

codwidow wrote: »

I thought you could be referred to FND at 6 or 12 months into claiming JSA/Ni credits ?

it is 12 months for over 25's and probably sooner for under 25's. i do think they have the ability to refer people early if they are feeling nasty. i got refered after 10 months. when i pointed this out he said he thought it had been 12 months. he didnt reverse the decision though.

codwidow

That youtube clip is very thought provoking

laser

codwidow wrote: »

Hi Laser

I think what the JC person meant is that you will have to do a work placement as part of FND. Like you I am signing for NI credits and a cert to get my mortgage insurance as like you I have paid into for years and years.

The JC person was just trying to mess with your head, personally I think I would complain and its hardly professional, you shouldnt have to listen to those kind of comments when visiting a government office.

The work placement is not counted as work it is counted as training and as such would not affect your mortgage insurance as far as I know. I can see why its a worry for you though I would be the same. Have you been unemployed for 6 or 12 months as most mortgage protection schemes only last 12 months anyway so you may end up not have to attend if your mortgage protection is due to end shortly anyway and you are not actually getting any benefits (like me, just NI stamp)

Hi Codwidow,
thanks for the reply. All I've been told at the moment is that I will have to do unpaid work, whether it is a work trial or a pilot workfare scheme I don't yet know.

I took my PPI out approx 10 years ago when I moved back from a 3 year stint working in France. At that time the insurance companies were pushing these pretty hard and I have 24month cover.

Clearly there are two issues here:

1. The legality of forcing somebody to work for nothing. Even if it is a work trial I believe a minimum wage should apply.

2. The affect any mandatory period of work that is in excess of 16 hours/week could have on my mortgage insurance.

I can't believe any scheme that forces somebody to commit financial suicide can be a good one regardless of whether you are on benefits or not. This amounts to extreme coercion and would appear to be more about forcing people to sign off than actually helping them to find gainful employment.

If a person is on benefits then it is a simple calculation to work out the number of hours work required to pay back their benefits based on the minimum wage. Obviously there are other things that will need to be taken into account such as the cost of child care and travel expenses. There will be people who will not agree with this and i'm not advocating that all people on benefits should have to work for them. There is no one solution that fits all, unfrotunately these schemes assume there is!

I also believe any such scheme should ensure that the participant leaves the scheme with skills over and above those that thay already have.

Unfortunately all these schemes seem to focus on basic skills such as the ECDL, CSCS, confidence building, how to fill in application forms, how to write a CV etc.. It's more of the same time and time again so many people's skills are not being enhanced. This amounts to a waste of taxpayer money, and although I'm currently unemployed, I have been a higher rate tax payer for a large proportion of my working life.

I would personally like to sue Gordon Brown for breaking the verbal contract he made with the public at the begining of this recession when he claimed that job centres would be brought into the 21st century and help would be provided for white collar professional workers.... I have seen absolutely no evidence of this.

I'll finish there as I'm getting on my political soap box now and distracting from the orginal isssue of working for nothing.

Regards,
Laser.

laser

Mr_Falling_Star wrote: »

Laser

Your point about being forced to work for nothing is a good one and one that I don't think many people have thought of yet. But doesn't your Mortgage Protection end soon anyway? FND doesn't start until 12 months into a claim by which time most policies have expired and FND stage , as far as I know won't start until at least 24 months into a claim

If it truly is a problem I would contact your MP

As to those who are on Benefits and get to FND stage 2 (when it comes in) enjoy it!. I am pretty sure I am right when I say the jobs are only 25-30 hours per week anyway

Hi falling star,
if what I'm told is correct I will be entering FND stage 2 at the end of May which will be 17 months unmeployed. My PPI is for 24 months so there is a real possibility I could loose out on the provisions I have made for myself.

My story of unemployment is one of so near but yet so far. I have applied for countless numbers of jobs and have had a good number of interviews. I have been in the frame (last 2,3 or 4) on a number of occassions for some very good jobs, had some very good feedback following interview but haven't yet managed to secure that job.

I have applied for jobs across the board, from local jobs paying not much more than minimum wage to jobs outside of my area paying upto £80K /year + bonus.

I have CVs that include all my qualifications and experience and CV's where many of my qualifications are omitted and much of my work experience is toned down e.g. avoid using the term manager at all costs.

I posess professional technical, project manegement, personnel management, sales and marketing qalifications and have participated in an abundance of vocational/on-the job training courses.

However, I have been out of work for over a year now and the assumption then is that I am screwing the system or lacking basic skills and need to be told how to fill out an application form, use the internet, operate a computer etc..

Regards,
Laser

codwidow

laser wrote: »

Hi falling star,
if what I'm told is correct I will be entering FND stage 2 at the end of May which will be 17 months unmeployed. My PPI is for 24 months so there is a real possibility I could loose out on the provisions I have made for myself.

My story of unemployment is one of so near but yet so far. I have applied for countless numbers of jobs and have had a good number of interviews. I have been in the frame (last 2,3 or 4) on a number of occassions for some very good jobs, had some very good feedback following interview but haven't yet managed to secure that job.

I have applied for jobs across the board, from local jobs paying not much more than minimum wage to jobs outside of my area paying upto £80K /year + bonus.

I have CVs that include all my qualifications and experience and CV's where many of my qualifications are omitted and much of my work experience is toned down e.g. avoid using the term manager at all costs.

I posess professional technical, project manegement, personnel management, sales and marketing qalifications and have participated in an abundance of vocational/on-the job training courses.

However, I have been out of work for over a year now and the assumption then is that I am screwing the system or lacking basic skills and need to be told how to fill out an application form, use the internet, operate a computer etc..

Regards,
Laser

Hi

I think you need to seek some professional advice as you say anything over 16hours, I think you should speak to your mortgage insurance provider firstly though as I dont think you will get much assistance from JCP.

It is definately all about putting people in training and thus off the unemployment statistics regardless of what happens to them on these courses or in your case when you have made provisions for yourself and it effectively ends your cover so you would be forced to claim mortgage interest instead.

There are a few eye opening posts on a day in the life of someone on one of these courses, quite scary.

I really hope you get somewhere with this because it just doesnt seem right at all forcing people to work unpaid, especially when we are coming out of a recession.

I think you have some very valid points but I am sure there will be someone who will post a nasty, vicious, unhelpful comment on here as it always happens

laser

codwidow wrote: »

Hi

I think you need to seek some professional advice as you say anything over 16hours, I think you should speak to your mortgage insurance provider firstly though as I dont think you will get much assistance from JCP.

It is definately all about putting people in training and thus off the unemployment statistics regardless of what happens to them on these courses or in your case when you have made provisions for yourself and it effectively ends your cover so you would be forced to claim mortgage interest instead.

There are a few eye opening posts on a day in the life of someone on one of these courses, quite scary.

I really hope you get somewhere with this because it just doesnt seem right at all forcing people to work unpaid, especially when we are coming out of a recession.

I think you have some very valid points but I am sure there will be someone who will post a nasty, vicious, unhelpful comment on here as it always happens

Hi Codwidow,
Thanks for your kind comments.

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, a government scheme that forces people to claim mortgage interest by invalidating the provisions they've made for themselves. Yeah, let's cost the taxpayer even more money!!!!:rotfl:

Insurance companies are quite capable of wriggling out of their commitments without needing help from the government.

The point is this could so easily be avoided by limiting the scheme for certain cases such that the 16 hours/week threshold is not crossed.

Another way would be to introduce a monthly limit of say 64 hours so that peole could do a training course or work trial over two back-to-back 32 hour weeks.

I fell foul of the 16 hour/week threshold when I asked to go on a six sigma course which would have been funded through a Welsh Assembly funding scheme called REACT, £2.5K worth of training down the swanny because of the 16hr/week threshold set by JCP/UK Government.:mad:

You would think that National and regional governments would talk to eachother to avoid such conflicts of interest!:T

As you can probably gather, I have no problem with attending meaningful training courses or work trials providing I am not penalised financially.

Regards,
laser

speedfreek1000

laser wrote: »

Wouldn't it be the ultimate, a government scheme that forces people to claim mortgage interest by invalidating the provisions they've made for themselves. Yeah, let's cost the taxpayer even more money!!!!:rotfl:

How about the DWP handing the power to give out sanctions to FND providers and then paying them full whack as long as the person turned up for the 1st day rather than the duration of whole course? :T

Thus creating the position where by getting your "customers" thrown of courses through sanctioning makes both political and economic sense to both parties :rotfl:

codwidow

speedfreek1000 wrote: »

How about the DWP handing the power to give out sanctions to FND providers and then paying them full whack as long as the person turned up for the 1st day rather than the duration of whole course? :T

Thus creating the position where by getting your "customers" thrown of courses through sanctioning makes both political and economic sense to both parties :rotfl:

omg thats not really true is it ?

donnajunkie

speedfreek1000 wrote: »

How about the DWP handing the power to give out sanctions to FND providers and then paying them full whack as long as the person turned up for the 1st day rather than the duration of whole course? :T

Thus creating the position where by getting your "customers" thrown of courses through sanctioning makes both political and economic sense to both parties :rotfl:

the info i have been given regarding sanctions on fnd is that if you get sanctioned you are not removed off the course like you were on the old new deal. you still sign on as normal and still have to attend the course as normal. i would be very surprised if alot of advisors on these courses dont get knocked out. well can you imagine you go to get your money only to discover you have been sanctioned and then the next appointment with the advisor that gave the sanction is a day or 2 later.