Flexible new deal stages and signing off to reclaim

Jowo_2

Parva wrote: »

Friend lives in a 2 bedroomed housing association house which I believe was band 'B' for council tax. If he took a 20 hour job at minimum wage and assuming no bus fares to get there he would be £10pw better off. If he took a 40 hour job at minimum wage he was £50 better off per week (taking into consideration the rent and council tax rebates). The advisor seemed to think that my friend could get a bus pass for £10PW if the job was in the city centre, I've not been able to confirm this, I suspect it'll need a pass costing £18pw.

So, assuming that he can get the pass for £10pw that means he's £40pw better off, or translated another way, he's earning £1 per HOUR and that's only work time, that doesn't include travel.

I too would like to see people coming off benefits into employment feel that they are much better off instead of resenting the transfer of unearned income into earned income.

I do totally understand why the lack of difference between benefits and earned income is a complete disincentive to gaining employment. There should be a change to the National Minimum wage and taxation system so people don't feel ripped off when they get a job.

Here you cite an example where a person earning close to £6 per hour defines their actual earnings as £1 per hour simply because they have to pay for quite standard living expenses out of their taxed wages - rent, travel, council tax.

SingleSue

I would much rather be earning that extra money than sitting at home becoming all demoralised.

And I have done it in the past, yes it was blooming tough but boy did I feel better in myself...in fact, financially, we were worse off initially due to travel etc but a few extra shifts as and when the boys allowed, a little bit of time, a few payrises and we ended up being a whole lot better off financially, and me especially mentally.

I would give anything to be working now (as in working in the normal sense, not the caring role I do), to be earning my own money instead of relying on benefits but the possibility of it with the children and their disabilities is rather remote. It took me a long time to really come to that conclusion and when I did (in the last few months), it sent me into a bit of a tailspin...I absolutely detest not working, I've done it since age 11 up until fairly recently with one short break after youngest was born and middle sons disabilities were becoming noticeable.

But that is just me and I am a bit of a weird workaholic one anyway.

coupes

To the poster who wrote that summary of a day at one of these places, that is quite accurate as ive been told. I was only sent to a provider like this a few years ago (not A4E) when i was unemployed and it was a couple of weeks long. That was enough for me. But i know someone who completed the extended version of new deal with A4E last year. He said it was like being held captive and your every move being monitored. Think of it as a long mental endurance test.

The most depressing part is going through this trouble of attending a 'course', listening to them ramble on and then at the end of it you are still in the same situation with no job.

So far ive heard this course is part time and they are flexible with the day and time. The way it should be done is that you attend the centre once a month to show them you are still looking for work. Find out if they can arrange a placement or even a real job etc.

Otherwise these programmes arent of much benefit to the unemployed. Instead they are being used as a tool to discourage people from continuing to sign on. The real benefit is for organisations like A4E who receive funding from the government to run these places and then bonuses for claiming to have found people work whenever people drop out. Its just a huge scam to manipulate the unemployment figures. Because when youre on one of these 'courses' you are apparently classed as 'in-training' and not unemployed.

donnajunkie

Parva wrote: »

Phew, long but interesting thread! I too have been subject to New Deal in the past but the West Yorkshire version is somewhat different, 18 months before you're subjected to it if you're 25+.

Regardless, a friend of mine has just hit this 18 month cap and been told he's getting put onto it. That's fair enough. His (now personal) advisor said he could run various scenarios to see how much better off my friend would be.

Friend lives in a 2 bedroomed housing association house which I believe was band 'B' for council tax. If he took a 20 hour job at minimum wage and assuming no bus fares to get there he would be £10pw better off. If he took a 40 hour job at minimum wage he was £50 better off per week (taking into consideration the rent and council tax rebates). The advisor seemed to think that my friend could get a bus pass for £10PW if the job was in the city centre, I've not been able to confirm this, I suspect it'll need a pass costing £18pw.

So, assuming that he can get the pass for £10pw that means he's £40pw better off, or translated another way, he's earning £1 per HOUR and that's only work time, that doesn't include travel.

I'm not advocating that people don't work but it's clear to see why they wouldn't want to. I used to be in a highly paid job (printing) where I could easily earn £100 just for 4 hours on a Saturday morning and I've taken a big nosedive in money to get out of that trade but if I were told that I could make £50PW over and above benefits (and this assumes no travel costs) then I know what I would be doing. Either sleeping or getting a suntan in the garden!

Sorry, that's a brutal and very wrong way to address the issues here but it is a simple fact that anyone in an unemployed position could face and I fail to see any argument that could persuade them that they are better off actually working. Better job and wages yes, but minimum wage is a big problem when getting people out of unemployment.

back to work calcualtions dont tell the whole truth. they dont tell you for example that the amount of working tax credit they say you will get will only be to the end of the financial year. after that it will be cut.

donnajunkie

coupes wrote: »

To the poster who wrote that summary of a day at one of these places, that is quite accurate as ive been told. I was only sent to a provider like this a few years ago (not A4E) when i was unemployed and it was a couple of weeks long. That was enough for me. But i know someone who completed the extended version of new deal with A4E last year. He said it was like being held captive and your every move being monitored. Think of it as a long mental endurance test.

The most depressing part is going through this trouble of attending a 'course', listening to them ramble on and then at the end of it you are still in the same situation with no job.

So far ive heard this course is part time and they are flexible with the day and time. The way it should be done is that you attend the centre once a month to show them you are still looking for work. Find out if they can arrange a placement or even a real job etc.

Otherwise these programmes arent of much benefit to the unemployed. Instead they are being used as a tool to discourage people from continuing to sign on. The real benefit is for organisations like A4E who receive funding from the government to run these places and then bonuses for claiming to have found people work whenever people drop out. Its just a huge scam to manipulate the unemployment figures. Because when youre on one of these 'courses' you are apparently classed as 'in-training' and not unemployed.

the day that was described will have been on the old new deal.

laser

Hi,
just this week I’ve been told that I will been moving on to the next stage of FND at the end of May. The guy at the agency told me that I “will then have to earn my keep”!. Confused I asked him what he meant by this, he replied “You will have to work to earn your benefits”;
“benefits! what benefits?” I replied; I don’t get any!!
Anybody else in this situtaion?
I can understand the concept of working to cover your benefits regardless of whether as an indivivdual you agree with it or not; but I can’t believe that it’s legal to force somebody into unpaid work who do not receive beneifts, surely this would amount to slavery?!!? What happened to the minimum wage??? won’t the government be violating their own legislation!?!
But it gets worst, I have been paying into a private mortgage insurance scheme for the past 10 or 11 years which I am currently claiming on. If i am froced to work for more that 16 hours a week the insurance company do not have to pay.
End result will be that I will be forced to work for nothing and the only life line I have, my mortgage insurance, will be cut off! Could end up loosing the house.
I’m under a huge amount of stress because of this at the moment, all at a time when my sons are sitting their GCSE’s and AS levels. As you can imagine, the atmosphere is not great in our house at the moment.

codwidow

Hi Laser

I think what the JC person meant is that you will have to do a work placement as part of FND. Like you I am signing for NI credits and a cert to get my mortgage insurance as like you I have paid into for years and years.

The JC person was just trying to mess with your head, personally I think I would complain and its hardly professional, you shouldnt have to listen to those kind of comments when visiting a government office.

The work placement is not counted as work it is counted as training and as such would not affect your mortgage insurance as far as I know. I can see why its a worry for you though I would be the same. Have you been unemployed for 6 or 12 months as most mortgage protection schemes only last 12 months anyway so you may end up not have to attend if your mortgage protection is due to end shortly anyway and you are not actually getting any benefits (like me, just NI stamp)

donnajunkie

laser wrote: »

I can’t believe that it’s legal to force somebody into unpaid work who do not receive beneifts, surely this would amount to slavery?!!? What happened to the minimum wage??? won’t the government be violating their own legislation!?!

are you about to finish 12 months with an outside provider? are you in the rnanchester area which is were i believe fnd phase 2 is being piloted?
regarding your point. even if someone gets benefits they are still working for nothing because benefits are not a wage and in most cases less than the minimum wage(for those wanting to included hb/ctb) and well under the minimum wage if you dont count them.
check out this clip regarding breaching rights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxO02lo5TA

donnajunkie

codwidow wrote: »

Hi Laser

I think what the JC person meant is that you will have to do a work placement as part of FND.

this could be the case but it could be like i suspected in my previous post. it could be that they are in the area that is piloting the work fare scheme.

Mr_Falling_Star

Laser

Your point about being forced to work for nothing is a good one and one that I don't think many people have thought of yet. But doesn't your Mortgage Protection end soon anyway? FND doesn't start until 12 months into a claim by which time most policies have expired and FND stage , as far as I know won't start until at least 24 months into a claim

If it truly is a problem I would contact your MP

As to those who are on Benefits and get to FND stage 2 (when it comes in) enjoy it!. I am pretty sure I am right when I say the jobs are only 25-30 hours per week anyway