T-Mobile - calls to 07404 (Lycamobile) excluded from allowance

kYuZz

aussie-in-london wrote: »

More Information from T-Mobile today...

Further to our telephonic conversation, below given are the numbers (apart from premium and 08 numbers) that will be charged outside allowance:
...

I'm with T-Mobile, and I've been charged too for calling a Lycamobile number.
I found this thread on this forum and I am amazed about what I've read.

I think that what T-Mobile is doing is unfair, as they let their customer understand that their UK mobile allowance is valid for every mobile in the UK, while this is not true.

chattychappy

Stupidly I've lost my bill (i'll find it eventually)... but the website still says:

"Inclusive minutes and texts are from the UK to all UK mobiles and numbers starting with 01, 02 or 03 at any time. This doesn't cover Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. The following costs apply to call and messages outside of your allowance."

And there is similar wording on my T+Cs.

chattychappy

kYuZz wrote: »

I think that what T-Mobile is doing is unfair, as they let their customer understand that their UK mobile allowance is valid for every mobile in the UK, while this is not true.

Actually I think it's fraudulent.

kYuZz

Hi all,

after finding out that I was charged for my calls to Lycamobile numbers, I called T-Mobile to complain. Even if my contract says that I have "100 minutes of free calls to UK landline and mobile numbers", I was told that calls to some mobile numbers are not considered to be inside my allowance. Anyway, they refunded me immediately.

I also managed to make them send me an email with a list of mobile numbers that are charged outside of the allowance, and it is the same as the one that 'aussie-in-london' posted above in this forum thread.

I got my credit back, but I'm not happy at all with T-Mobile for various reasons. In the first place, when I activated my contract I wasn't told about this 'special' mobile numbers, and no page on their website says what I've been told in the email. Also, the list of 'special' numbers is quite long, and of course I can't check it every time I make a call. I think I might get the refund again for next bills, but I don't feel like making T-Mobile a call avery month in order to get my bill adjusted.
Also, the refund seems to me an expedient from T-Mobile, just to keep sweet consumers that notice this thing, in order not to make them go any further. In the meantime, thousands people haven't got a clue they are paying for calls they think to be inside their allowance.

I haven't been living in the UK for long, I don't know well this country's law, and so I'm not too sure about what to do. Anyway I think that somebody should do something about this, since what T-Mobile is doing is not honest.

Spikey_2

is this the same with other networks?

chattychappy

OK found the bill and called T-mobile again. This is my 3rd bill since this issue arose. The first time the credited back but were vague as to why I had been charged. Second time I didn't make any calls.

This time the amount was about £8. They told me that "Lycamobile is not a UK mobile network" but they would credit back anyway. Also they would put a note on the system and wouldn't be prepared to do it again. She also suggested that I take it up with Lycamobile! I argued that:

1) it is a UK mobile - people buy SIMs in the UK, they work in GSM phones and the numbers start with +44.

2) I referred to the T+Cs ("Inclusive monthly allowance to spend on calls and texts to UK mobile networks and numbers starting with 01, 02 and 03 (not including Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man) from the UK") and said that it would have been open to them to exclude these numbers if they wished. In particular they took the trouble to exclude CI/IoM numbers which are not part of the UK. So therefore it seems pretty clear: ALL UK mobile numbers are included in the allowance.

And said that "next time" I would still expect them to keep to the contract or I would refer to Ofcom. She was happy with that.

Well, I thought I shouldn't let it drop there. So I rang Ofcom.

Ofcom
I spoke to an operator at Ofcom. He said they are aware of the problem and are looking at it. For them it was an issue of "transparency" - ie they should make it clear what people will be charged for. Well no arguments there.

He said that the problem was that T-mobile might have to pay more to terminate the calls onto Lycamobile, particularly if users are roaming. This didn't seem relevant to me - and besides, I believe most Lyca SIMs are used by foreigners in the UK because they offer cheap rates abroad. He also said that unless T-mobile had expressly told me that Lyca calls were included (as an inducement to sign up), then it was OK for T-mobile to give me notice that they were excluded but that they would expect in the meantime T-mobile to credit, perhaps as goodwill. Well.. that all seemed a bit weak.

Incidentally, I'm near the end of a contract and the only person I call on Lycamobile is leaving the UK next week so I may not be affected by this again.

From my call to Ofcom it is obvious they are looking at it and are perhaps at the stage of wondering how "big" this issue is. I think they are not quite ready to commit themselves one way or the other. Frankly it seems pretty simple to me - the T+Cs are clear, as is the website and other material. It's a simple case of T-mobile not billing according to what they have promised and are hoping people don't notice.

My suggestion is people call them on: 0300 123 3333 whether or not you've had a credit. I got through to a real person within 30 seconds.. very good!

digp

This issue also needs to be raised with the ASA.

chattychappy

digp wrote: »

This issue also needs to be raised with the ASA.

Actually I'm not sure it does. I think there is nothing wrong with their advertising. They are advertising a deal which is then what you sign up to in the T+Cs.

The problem is they are not following what has been agreed.

I'm thinking of contacting the Office of Fair Trading on this point, plus the issue of competition policy. (Seems like a vendetta because of their dispute in the Netherlands with Lycamobile). I'm too busy right now - will do it next week.

Has anyone else complained to OFCOM yet?

aussie-in-london_2

I have found this site which allows you to look up a particular phone number, netlookup. co. uk from a previous thread you can see the start of the number excluded, I added some random numbers after the numbers listed and it seems to be able to find the relevant carrier.

It seems that Lycamobile are becoming a victim of their own success because there are a lot of other operators here but cannot see anyone complaining about these.

I also found an old article about PNS 070 number charges and this article suggested sending an email to contact @ ofcom .org .uk and make sure you include your own contact details so that you can get a response, not sure if this is still a valid address but may be worth a go. Or use the CEO's address as previously mentioned by digp

aussie-in-london_2

Hi chattychappy, yes I spoke with Ofcom and they haqve given me a case number and advised me to write to T-Mobile directly via recorded delivery which is what I am doing today. THey seem to be getting a large volume of calls now as the associate I spoke with knew all about this issue. He advised it is purely a commercial decision from t-mobile and that it has nothing to do with it not being a recognised ofcom number or anything else. Dave