T-Mobile - calls to 07404 (Lycamobile) excluded from allowance

redux

chattychappy wrote: »

Well.. I feel OFCOM are only half getting it. They seemed to suggest to me that once I'd been told on the phone that these numbers were chargeable then I would know for the future and wouldn't have a cause of complaint, though they would expect T-Mobile to refund up to the at point.

This is rubbish - a contract is a contract. No exclusion for Lyca at the time of signing. So the calls must be included. If T-Mobile want to vary the terms then they should do so properly - ie in writing and with the chance for people to cancel.

My guess is that OFCOM just don't want to quite take sides yet.

I think if you've been overcharged (eg by DD) - then complaint in writing etc followed by small claims procedure in court. I'm sure they'd settle in full!

It is fact that Ofcom do not mandate network tariffs, what calls may or may not be deemed inclusive, and they don't arbitrate disputes.

As for the contract, and what is in writing:

What’s a UK mobile call?

. This is a call made within the UK to a customer of a national UK GSM cellular network. These are what are commonly known as mobile networks. At the moment, the national UK GSM cellular networks are Hutchinson 3G, 02, Vodafone, Orange and T-Mobile. Calls to one of the mobile operators exclusively using their networks (e.g. Virgin, Tesco, Fresh) are treated the same.

. There are some newer networks whose customers have a telephone number starting with 07, but which aren’t treated as a UK mobile call for the purpose of inclusive allowances. That means that calls to numbers starting with 075, 076 (except those whose charges are outlined on Page 2), 077 and 078 (except those which are allocated to national UK GSM cellular networks) aren’t treated as UK mobile calls. That means that if you call one of those numbers, that call won’t come out of our inclusive allowance and you’ll be charged your price plan’s rate for a call to a UK mobile.
. As networks like these change from time to time, please contact us if you would like to check a particular number.

http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO115/en_GB/36010567_Lit_What_it_costs.pdf

ShaneUK

aussie-in-london wrote: »

I have found this site which allows you to look up a particular phone number, netlookup. co. uk from a previous thread you can see the start of the number excluded, I added some random numbers after the numbers listed and it seems to be able to find the relevant carrier.

The only problem with http://www.netlookup.co.uk is if the person has ported their number; ie I used to be with 3 (over 3 years ago) and ported my number to Orange - however, just tried it, and it said I was on 3.

System

There is a requirement for consumer contracts to be fair.

For person not working in the industry, can they really be expected to know the difference between Fresh Mobile or Truphone? What about when a 3 Mobile roams into Orange's 2G network?

The general exclusion would need to be explicitly highlighted at signup or be part of T&Cs change that would likely enable contract cancellation.

The Jersey, Guernsey numbers etc are different as the Islands are not part of the UK.

redux wrote: »

It is fact that Ofcom do not mandate network tariffs, what calls may or may not be deemed inclusive, and they don't arbitrate disputes.

As for the contract, and what is in writing:

What’s a UK mobile call?

. This is a call made within the UK to a customer of a national UK GSM cellular network. These are what are commonly known as mobile networks. At the moment, the national UK GSM cellular networks are Hutchinson 3G, 02, Vodafone, Orange and T-Mobile. Calls to one of the mobile operators exclusively using their networks (e.g. Virgin, Tesco, Fresh) are treated the same.

. There are some newer networks whose customers have a telephone number starting with 07, but which aren’t treated as a UK mobile call for the purpose of inclusive allowances. That means that calls to numbers starting with 075, 076 (except those whose charges are outlined on Page 2), 077 and 078 (except those which are allocated to national UK GSM cellular networks) aren’t treated as UK mobile calls. That means that if you call one of those numbers, that call won’t come out of our inclusive allowance and you’ll be charged your price plan’s rate for a call to a UK mobile.
. As networks like these change from time to time, please contact us if you would like to check a particular number.

http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO115/en_GB/36010567_Lit_What_it_costs.pdf

chattychappy

redux wrote: »

What’s a UK mobile call?
. This is a call made within the UK to a customer of a national UK GSM cellular network. These are what are commonly known as mobile networks. At the moment, the national UK GSM cellular networks are Hutchinson 3G, 02, Vodafone, Orange and T-Mobile. Calls to one of the mobile operators exclusively using their networks (e.g. Virgin, Tesco, Fresh) are treated the same.

. There are some newer networks whose customers have a telephone number starting with 07, but which aren’t treated as a UK mobile call for the purpose of inclusive allowances. That means that calls to numbers starting with 075, 076 (except those whose charges are outlined on Page 2), 077 and 078 (except those which are allocated to national UK GSM cellular networks) aren’t treated as UK mobile calls. That means that if you call one of those numbers, that call won’t come out of our inclusive allowance and you’ll be charged your price plan’s rate for a call to a UK mobile.
. As networks like these change from time to time, please contact us if you would like to check a particular number.

http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/resources/sites/TMOBILE/content/live/DOCUMENTS/0/DO115/en_GB/36010567_Lit_What_it_costs.pdf

Seems to me this is new - perhaps in reaction to Ofcom's enquiry. I don't see it makes any difference - it wasn't in my contract when I signed up (just the exclusion about the Channel Islands) and they haven't gone through the variation process. I wonder if this text is incorporated into contracts they are producing now? Also, of course, Lyca starts with 074 anyway.

I can well imagine they would want to avoid writing to vary people's contracts - that would make the whole thing obvious (I'm convinced many people on DDs just don't notice). People would attempt to use this to cancel.

secretmsg

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/inclusive-allowances/

Are they trying to justify themself ? I cannot find any 07404 numbers on 'What it costs' PDF. i dont understand if these numbers are chargeable then why are we not eligible to cancel our line?

seaniboy

My mobile number was issued by o2 moved to 3 back to o2 back to 3 now with o2 again & it starts 077 so how are T-mob customers to know it's with o2 & included ? Guess ?

I left T Mob many years ago after a few chances for them to redeem their mistakes-clueless bunch of Germans didn't, I left.

seaniboy

There are some newer networks whose customers have a telephone number starting with 07, but which aren't treated as a UK mobile call (or text) for the purpose of allowances, Boosters and rewards (or any other bundle of inclusive services) on any pay as you go, SIM only or pay monthly plan. This means that calls or texts to some numbers starting with 07 aren't treated as UK mobile calls or texts. ***These include (but may not be limited to)*** some numbers beginning with the following sequences:
07404 07405 074088 07424 07466 075202
075594 075894 075895 075896 075897 07609
07610 07621 07682 077077 0782210 078228
078920 078921 078931 079112 079118 079788

That's dangerously close to misselling, unfair terms & corporate fraud, T- mob must list ALL excluded prefixes. NOT maybe not be limited to our published prefixes.

redux

chattychappy wrote: »

Seems to me this is new - perhaps in reaction to Ofcom's enquiry. I don't see it makes any difference - it wasn't in my contract when I signed up (just the exclusion about the Channel Islands) and they haven't gone through the variation process. I wonder if this text is incorporated into contracts they are producing now? Also, of course, Lyca starts with 074 anyway.

I can well imagine they would want to avoid writing to vary people's contracts - that would make the whole thing obvious (I'm convinced many people on DDs just don't notice). People would attempt to use this to cancel.

I think you might find they have had such conditions and excepted or non-connected numbers for years, and so have other networks, though Orange and O2 are probably better on the issue than the others.

tony077844

Well chaps if you want to stir things up with t mobile mobile numbers with 07404 from lycamobile are now transferable to all uk networks. Just got my pac code to leave lyca and in process of porting to giffgaff part of o2. Should have called t mobile and asked where there stand is on this on transfer pac codes to them with numbers starting 07404. Voda and o2 treat 07404 as any other uk network call. T mobile and orange together now dont. Totally ridiculous. So if t mobile cracks no its not a uk number then state people are porting this number across the specutrm. They dont have a leg to stand on this.

Stylee

I recently noticed that this had happened to me - £8 for a call outside of my plan. I called T-Mobile to ask why and they said that certain numbers weren't included, this one being an 07404 - when I got home and checked through T-Mobile's documentation on their website, and realised the number I had called belonged to my Mother, I was not best pleased! Another call to T-Mobile has secured a refund, along with the proviso that this was a one-time only gesture, and there would be no more refunds in future (I said "Time will tell"). The lady at the call centre (who to be fair, was very pleasant) asked me to bear with her as she was making a detailed note on my account - I asked her if she was writing that I had been told this was a one-time only refund, she said yes, so I asked her to also include in the note that although I acknowledge that she has told me this, I refuse to accept it. She said she would!

In our little discussion before a refund was agreed, I must say she was completely stumped by the PAC potential mentioned above...

I said that I didn't think T-Mobile's position on this was tenable, and that there must be a resolution soon. She said she hoped so, as it would certainly make her working day easier! She said there had been a lot of calls about this...