Surge Protectors

Lil306

Can't find specs on mine, made by a Company called Masterplug, they have release some up to date models. Mine came with a £30,000 or £50,000 Equipment warranty when I got it

Anyways, here's some specs from similar models if it helps you

High capacity metal oxide varistors will absorb power surges & spikes
• The addition of gas tubes help to provide a faster surge protection response
• RFI filter helps to eliminate disruptive radio frequency noise & interference
• Surge protected leads with three channel protection & safety thermal cut-out
• Manufactured to BS EN 60950 & BS1363/A
• Supplied with all necessary connecting leads with gold plated connectors
• £5,000 connected equipment warranty

westom

Lil306 wrote: »

Anyways, here's some specs from similar models if it helps you

Lil306 wrote: »

High capacity metal oxide varistors will absorb power surges & spikes
• The addition of gas tubes help to provide a faster surge protection response
• RFI filter helps to eliminate disruptive radio frequency noise & interference
• Surge protected leads with three channel protection & safety thermal cut-out
• Manufactured to BS EN 60950 & BS1363/A
• Supplied with all necessary connecting leads with gold plated connectors
• £5,000 connected equipment warranty

No numbers. Same technique also proved Saddam had WMDs.

Well, generally gas tubes are slower. But irrelevant since all devices are more than fast enough.

MOVs - how many joules? Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. It probably only has hundreds of joules. IOW more critical numbers not provided so that you do not ask embarrassing questions. How do so few joules 'absorb power surges and spikes' that are hundreds of thousands of joules?

Undersizing is often intentional. A surge too small to harm the computer easily damages the undersized protection. Then most will assume, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer". Reality - computer protected itself and the protector quit early. Undersizing increases profits (reduces costs) AND gets the naive to make assumptions.

Thermal cutout - is what disconnects protectors when a tiny surge is just large enough. Intended to disconnect MOVs from the surge so that a housefire does not result. To leave the appliance to fend for itself. But since appliances already have internal protection, an appliance is not damaged by tiny surges that blows out the thermal cutout . A backup safety device because so many protectors have caused fires when it does not cut out fast enough.

RFI filter? I can buy a 20 pence capacitor. That also is an RFI filter. Near zero is just another reason why they do not include specs such as dB per decade. Any RFI filtering that need be done is already inside each appliance as required by BS and EU standards.

That warranty is chock full of exemptions. Rather surprised how low it is. Since manufacturers typically replaces only the protector (due to so many exemptions), then most usually hype warranties in the tens or hundreds of thousands.

Meanwhile the best protectors offer no warranty. We see same in autos. Who is offering the best warranties? GM. That warranty proved GM products are superior to Honda and Toyota. Nonsense. Free market economics. The worse products tend to hype the largest warranties - with reams of find print exemptions.

Where does it list each type of surge and protection from that surge? Nothing provided. And for good reason. The NIST (US government research agency) says what an effective protector must do:
> A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work by
> diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can be
> useless if grounding is not done properly.

No 'less than 3 meter' connection to what dissipates energy - earth ground. Instead , it claims to mysteriously absorb all that energy. The NIST says what a protector without earthing does: "... useless if grounding is not done properly. "

I only called it ineffective. The NIST is blunter - "useless".

Where does that protector have a dedicated earthing wire? Best to not discuss protection from any type of surge. Especially when the protection is near zero and will somehow magically absorb all that energy. Most damning - and what we all should have learned from Saddam's WMDs. No numbers is how myths, half truths, and outright lies are promoted.

cit_k

westom wrote: »

If a washing machine creates destructive surges, then a first thing destroyed is the washing machine. Ask that damning question. Why is the washing machine not destroyed? A 'washing machine surge generator' is the classic myth that promotes high profit plug-in protectors. Again, where does 'washing machine' spikes get dissipated? It’s not confusing. The answer is obvious. A washing machine does not create those spikes.

Dimmer switches all over the house fail and must be replaced everytime you wash clothes? Oh? Even dimmer switches - which have even less internal protection - are not damaged by a washing machine? Another damning question. That washing machine surge myth promotes sales of obscenely profitable and ineffective protectors.

Install one protector for a transient that occurs maybe once in seven years - and much less often in the UK. Spend 25 or 100 times less money for a protector so effective as to even earth direct lightning strikes and other destructive utility transients. Why spend tens or 100 times more money for a power strip that does not even claim to protect from a washing machine? Not confusing. So simple as to be understood even 100 years ago?

Don't take my word for it. Post those plug-in manufacturer specification numbers that claim protection - such as noise from a washing machine? Show me the numbers. You cannot. If protection exists, then manufacturer specifications are in your very next reply. It's that simple. Even the manufacturer does not claim that protection.

Why does BT not waste money on those plug-in protectors? Why would they tens of times more money on that Surgeguard ... that does not even claim protection that Lil306 has assumed (he provides no spec numbers). Where are the Surgeguard spec numbers for protection? Do not exist. Even the warranty is full of fine print exemptions to not be honored.

To make their protectors effective, BT puts each protector as close to earth as possible. And up to 50 meters distant from electronics. That separation necessary for better protection. And not known to those only educated (intentionally confused) by advertising. BT puts protectors up to 50 meters separated from electronics because separation INCREASES protection. BT does not waste money on Surgeguard, et al that have virtually no earthing AND do not even claim to provide protection. One can use the 100+ years of knowledge that BT used - including the so critically important less then 3 meter connection to earth. Or one enrich Surgeguard whose protector is a profit center. Where are those Surgeguard numeric specs?

No earth ground means no effective protection (ie Surgeguard). A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which is why BT used properly earthed protectors separated up to 50 meters from electronics.

Dimmer switches are on the lighting circuit, electrical appliances are on a seperate circuit.

westom

cit_k wrote: »

Dimmer switches are on the lighting circuit, electrical appliances are on a seperate circuit.

Not always. But always - even when a dimmer switch is on the same circuit - even the microwave, washing machine, and vacuum cleaner do not harm dimmers switches, clock radios, electronic timer switches, alarm systems, etc.

Why do household appliances need protection from a washing machine that is on a different circuit? Appreciate why one 'whole house' protector even makes 'washing machine surges' irrelevant. Anything any power strip protector might do is performed by the 'whole house' protector. ‘Whole house’ also necessary to protect power strip protectors from destructive surges such as lightning or stray cars hitting electric poles.

My friend has someone who knows this stuff. 33,000 volt wire dropped onto local distribution. At least 100 electric meters were blown from their pans - so many up to 10 meters. Many suffered appliance and power strip damage (fortunately no fires). At least one had a blown circuit breaker. My friend only had one properly earthed 'whole house' protector. His utility electric meter was destroyed. And nothing else. No damage even to the 'whole house protector.

Destructive surges are rare. We earth only one 'whole house' protector so that all surges are made irrelevant. So that protection already inside every appliance (including the furnace) is not overwhelmed by any type of surge. Protection is always about where energy dissipates – in earth and not inside a building.

Appliance generated surges are another myth that sells plug-in protectors. What creates larger surges? A UPS when in battery backup mode. Electricity so ‘dirty’ as to be harmful to power strip protectors and small electric motors. And also irrelevant to electronics due to protection already inside those appliances.

Taffybiker

cit_k wrote: »

Dimmer switches are on the lighting circuit, electrical appliances are on a seperate circuit.

Actually, everything is on the same circuit electrically. Lighting and power are supplied through fuse/breaker protection in the consumer unit. The consumer unit connects everything together. Cooker, shower, sockets, lights all fed from a single supply entering your home/premises.

All but the cheapest electrical items will have surge protection already built in. There is nothing wrong with using manufactured surge protectors, but in my opinion they are not necessary. General mains spikes are dealt with inside the equipment, and lightning will destroy whatever it gets to anyway. Surge protectors against the lightning? It's like throwing a stone at a military tank.

kwikbreaks

I'm pleased to see that you agree with me on that one.

This is a money saving site. The message to take away is that not wasting money on BS products saves money.

Lil306

Westom is just a troll. At a guess someone who works in the Elecronics Engineering / Physics industry and they come onto forums to try and show their superior intellect. I knew there was something fishy soon as I saw the first post. All you have to google and their name appears everywhere. Joining forums just to post replies concerning surge protectors makes them an ASW as far as I'm concerned.

If surge protectors are so fake, why don't you write an article governing the reasons why and post it so all these surge protector companies go out of business just to prove how high and mighty you are. Claim you are the guru who broke apart the surge protector industry

In reality, I doubt it will even happen. Firstly because you're a troll. Secondly because the industry is stable and regardless what you say won't convince people because your **** waving antics are nothing more than someone trying to have a rant.

Surge protectors only protect from overloads in electrical current so your household equipment doesn't fry (basically faulty wiring). They're not designed to cope with major lightning strikes, that's what the earthing boxes attached to houses are for.

Ofcourse you will reply. Simply because it feeds trolls like you Westom. No doubt some smart !!!! reply, or some superior intellect I am all holier and more knowledgeable than you crap. By the way, do you frequently talk about yourself in the third person, I'm sure I read somewhere people who talk like that have signs of mental instability but that's another story

People on these forums don't need to know the whole crap of the inns and outs of each component and how it won't work. A simple answer could have sufficed with a quick reason why

westom

Taffybiker wrote: »

General mains spikes are dealt with inside the equipment, and lightning will destroy whatever it gets to anyway. Surge protectors against the lightning? It's like throwing a stone at a military tank.

So your town is without phone service for four days every year? BT computers connected to overhead wires all over town means about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. Since nothing protects from lightning (a popular myth), does BT disconnect all phone service with every thunderstorm? Of course not. Telcos do not want to enrich myth purveyors. Routine is a direct lightning strike without damage. Only the most technically naive would not know what was well proven even 100 years ago.

100 years ago, direct lightning strikes caused no damage when a 'whole house' protector was properly earthed. Why are 'whole house' protectors rated for 50,000 amps and more? Because earthing direct 20,000 amp lightning strikes without even protector damage is routine.

Any wire - even an antenna - that enters a building is a source of direct lightning strikes to appliances. Much of what responsible homeowners do comes from experiences in munitions dumps and Ham radio operators. A professional who suffers frequent lightning strikes and no damage describes the well proven solution. But only those who are willing to learn should bother reading:
> Well I assert, from personal and broadcast experience spanning 30 years,
> that you can design a system that will handle *direct lightning strikes* on a
> routine basis. It takes some planning and careful layout, but it's not hard,
> nor is it overly expensive. At WXIA-TV, my other job, we take direct
> lightning strikes nearly every time there's a thunderstorm. Our downtime
> from such strikes is almost non-existant. The last time we went down from a
> strike, it was due to a strike on the power company's lines knocking
> *them* out, ...
> Since my disasterous strike, I've been campaigning vigorously to educate
> amateurs that you *can* avoid damage from direct strikes. The belief that
> there's no protection from direct strike damage is *myth*. ...
> The keys to effective lightning protection are surprisingly simple, and
> surprisingly less than obvious. Of course you *must* have a single point
> ground system that eliminates all ground loops. And you must present a low
> *impedance* path for the energy to go. That's most generally a low
> *inductance* path rather than just a low ohm DC path.
Routine is protection from direct lightning strikes. Those protectors sitting next to an appliance are profit centers. Promoted by many who would post insults and who deny simple and well proven science.

Kieson is one of many responsible manufacturers who provide effective 'whole house' solutions. A solution necessary to protect undersized and ineffective plug-in protectors. A solution that makes plug-in protectors unnecessary.

alanwjones

I have a Belkin laptop surge protector on all my laptops(4) after one sacrificed itself on a flash and masses of smoke, saved my laptop though, cheap ones on this page http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=belkin+laptop+surge+protector&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Lil306

alanwjones wrote: »

I have a Belkin laptop surge protector on all my laptops(4) after one sacrificed itrelf on a flash and masses of smoke, saved my laptop though, chesap ones on this page http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=belkin+laptop+surge+protector&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Wowyou have done in one simple post what Westom can't seem to grasp the concept of. Proven that surge protectors do work without all the crap.... amazing

I could 2 more replies before the troll is back

Thanks for the reply alan, I'll have to check out those protectors myself I've got a couple of laptops where I'm on the **ahem** safe side of electricity :cool:

Offtopic - Anyone else think Belkin makes some good !!! products?