Why is it that going to University Costs so much.

The_One_Who

dawyldthing wrote: »

I do think there are far far too many degrees out there that don't have much relevance within society, especially when one friend was in uni for 3 hours a week! I think there needs to be a radical overhall of the whole system. I have no problem paying fees, I think 3k and even 5k is too much, I recogn 2k would be enough. Everyone says about the cost. well if you work it out this way theres 6 modules per course, so 6 tutors on 30k a year, roughly 180,000. on each course (especially some) theres like 100 people on the course, 100x 3000 (amount it costs) is 300,000 x 3 (amount of year groups)= 900,000. If you take off the 180,000 paid to the staff, theres 720,000 to pay for the library books and everything Someone somewhere is being paid an awful lot of money, and i know theres the admin staff and what have you, but if that is a lot of money for them to make. Then they make money on the food, the accomodation, the library fees etc etc.

But I do think that there should be loans that are not linked to your parents income for uni, as i think that everyone should be on an even keel so that people do have money to live on, but then it should be paid back on any money after 10k a year at the 10%, as then the money we borrow and then pay back is available to the next generation of students and will in a way self fund itself.

Sorry, thanked instead of quoted.

You do realise that the vast majority of departmental staff are effectively doing two jobs, and not really getting paid for them. On the one hand they are having to do teaching or supervision duties (both undergraduate and postgraduate), then they are having to do research and all the rigmarole that comes with it such as finding the money to do it. 'Professors' are on roughly £90k a year, and it is well deserved!

There is also the fact that they are not there to spoon-feed you.

Do you know how much a subscription to a journal article (either paper or print) costs the library per year? Just one journal? I suggest you go look it up.

And your last paragraph there is simply laughable. I really hope you aren't doing a degree in anything involving finance or economics.

rb10

dawyldthing wrote: »

Some courses are worth their weight in gold (teaching, doctors, nurses, midwives, police, firemen plus a few others) that in my own opinion should be partly funded, or paid off for every year that the person stays in the profession.

I'm not even going to go into the rest of the post, as although I don't agree with it, I couldn't possibly come up with figures to back myself up. I do, however, reckon that universities probably have more expenses that you are accounting for.

This bit made me laugh though - how many universities offer a course in Firemanship, or Policing?


Edit: take a look at the accounts for any uni - they'll be on the internet. Have just looked up one uni. This shows their total 'tuition fees and education contracts' to be £50M, and their staff costs to be just over £100M. In addition to that, they have 'other operating expenses' of £50M.

melancholly

on the costs issue, i take it people are considering library staff, student services, careers service, counselling service, cleaners, security, IT support, office staff, maintenance staff, receptionists, student housing staff etc etc etc ? or do they really just not have a clue.......... answers on a postcard!

making money on the food and library fines... well clearly that's a new financial model that i haven't been made aware of!

i have huge issues over the overpricing of estates costs within a university thanks to FEC, but that's entirely different. how can people at uni be so blind to the level of services that are offered that need to be paid for....?!

Oldernotwiser

melancholly wrote: »

how can people at uni be so blind to the level of services that are offered that need to be paid for....?!

And how can people be so ignorant about the main purpose of universities and think that undergraduate teaching is their raison d'etre?

BigNigel_2

I personally think that the student loans should be extended but grants cut a bit. It's unfair that some students get given an extra £3k a year than others whose parents are supposed to cover the difference! I had to get a job to pay my way through uni, both there and in hols while flatmates had it all given to them by the taxes I was paying! Not fair.

Mini_Bear

Also i think, as these increased fees are here to stay (and potentially increase gradually), families should prepare more for the eventuality.
Look at families in the US, many have "college funds" as uni costs are HUGE out there.
I know people complain here becuae the fees have gone from free to £1k/yr to £4ish k a yr. but come on, if i had a child now i would be saving up for their future (if not uni fees then a house deposit etc). and not buyin that 60 inch plasma and subaru imprzza on finance to keep up with the jones/neighbours.
just my tuppence - and i graduated with a 13k loan 4 yrs ago!
i think ppl expect too much free stuff, look at our benefit system, wat a joke.

brians_daughter

In my opinion university does seem to cost a lot - but when you compare this cost to what university GIVES you I would still feel that if they doubled the fees i would still be getting value for money! I say this as a mature student who has given up an awful lot to return to study. I can live within my means and fully respect and apreciate the opportunity that attending university has given/will give me.

The cost of Uni is far greater than the fees - and we are given the opportunity to borrow the cost of the fees and re-pay once we earn! I cant think why anyone would think that the cost was greater than the benefits. Unless they are just there cause they dont want to get a job - there are many of these kind of students on my course!

I have already begun to save for my 2 children so when they are at an age where Uni is a consideration they should (fingers crossed) have enough funding from me to pay for their fees and basic living costs. I would hope that every parent has thought about investing in the future of their own children and has considered the cost of further education.

giantmutantbroccoli

[QUOTE=dawyldthing;29197217
I think half the problem is that the government is all about statistics, and throw money at any way so that the statistics show that there doing well. I joined a group on facebook with the name something like 'university is like being on the dole with our parents being proud of us'. In some ways it honestly is. This year I'm in uni 27 weeks of the year, just over half. I know, as I had to defer a year due to failing an exam, and many of my friends were on 3 year degrees, many people that have graduated. Now most of these are all doing jobs that they could have done before going to uni (shop work, working for a bank, office work, working in a cinema and caring). I've got nothing against these jobs, but none of them are related to any of the degrees that people do, and personally I do think there are far far too many degrees out there that don't have much relevance within society, especially when one friend was in uni for 3 hours a week! [/QUOTE]
I knew a few people who had degrees that only took them a few hours a week at times. One was doing architecture, the other two were doing psychology. The 'spare' time isn't actually spare, it's meant to be spent doing research - reading and studying off your own back. Other subjects require more supervision or need you to learn a specific methodology, so these typically require more hours in uni.

I think there needs to be a radical overhall of the whole system. I have no problem paying fees, I think 3k and even 5k is too much, I recogn 2k would be enough. Everyone says about the cost. well if you work it out this way theres 6 modules per course, so 6 tutors on 30k a year, roughly 180,000. on each course (especially some) theres like 100 people on the course, 100x 3000 (amount it costs) is 300,000 x 3 (amount of year groups)= 900,000. If you take off the 180,000 paid to the staff, theres 720,000 to pay for the library books and everything Someone somewhere is being paid an awful lot of money, and i know theres the admin staff and what have you, but if that is a lot of money for them to make. Then they make money on the food, the accomodation, the library fees etc etc.

Someone somewhere is not being paid a lot of money considering the amount of work they have to do. I couldn't say for humanities based subjects, but I know that in science the amount you can earn in industry is considerably higher than the amount you can earn working in academia. You've also missed out estates costs, costs of research, materials used in teaching (especially if it's a lab-based course), subscriptions to journals, insurance, building work, software & hardware and associated licences, training for staff and students, and pretty much everything else that isn't directly related to teaching.

Some courses are worth their weight in gold (teaching, doctors, nurses, midwives, police, firemen plus a few others) that in my own opinion should be partly funded, or paid off for every year that the person stays in the profession.

AFAIK you get some funding from the NHS if you go into nursing/doctoring/dentistry and related courses. There's funding options available for teaching courses according to the ads all over the tv. I know there's extra funding to get if you study social work. I don't know what a fireman or police course would look like tbh, anyone been on one of those?

brians_daughter

"especially when one friend was in uni for 3 hours a week!"


re the time in university.. I am only 'in' lectures/seminars 6 hours a week, but I have spent 3 full 8 hour days reading/researching etc last week plus a day on a placement that will give me work experience in the kind of setting i wish to work in eventually.

For every 2 hour lecture/seminar we are expected to spend 6-8 hours on the subject in our own time - thats 18-24 hours additional study every week. Granted, many of my peers devote this time to other activities not course related, but this shows in class. The people that do the reading before the lectures/seminars are the ones who do all the talking in the group discussions as the others dont have an indepth knowledge enough on the topic to actually debate it. Thats all well and good for them, but I have no intention of only devoting the set timetable to my studies.

I was once told 'you do not 'do' a degree you 'read' for a degree' and this is the path I have followed. It has shown in the work I am producing and in the grades and respect I am getting from my lecturers.

dawyldthing

melancholly wrote: »

on the costs issue, i take it people are considering library staff, student services, careers service, counselling service, cleaners, security, IT support, office staff, maintenance staff, receptionists, student housing staff etc etc etc ? or do they really just not have a clue.......... answers on a postcard! (quote)

well for the uni i go to the maintenance staff and cleaners are probably paid for by the overinflated rent cost, student housing staff is a volunteer, and the rest by tuition fees I'm guessing, but most of the office staff for us are linked to about 3 or 4 departments, so when filtered across all departments then wouldn't cost that much per pupil. In addition, if you look at the wages for the people that work in uni in all of these roles, they are mostly more than what others would be paid in any other place of work. I still personally don't think tutors should be paid the amount they are, they chose the profession that they have gone into, and there are not that many other jobs that would pay very similar to what they get lecturing really. For example tutors of psychology - i'm still not sure why theres so many people study it, as everyone I know that has studied it in any form has not used it with getting a job. Tutors get 30-40k a year, being a teacher in psychology in a school would make 30-35k or there abouts. So for all the people that have studied psychology, what have they done with their degree?

Also, someone mentioned about policemen not needing a degree, many do including specialisms in criminology and others:

http://search.ucas.com/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/DfgVY3yTMyuPxPKTb43rDcmNTJ5Eo-3A5o/HAHTpage/search.HsKeywordSuggestion.whereNext?query=543&word=POLICE&single=N

Firemen might not need a degree, but the rest do and are the backbone to society, without many of these we wouldn't be where we are today