Why is it that going to University Costs so much.

Oldernotwiser

dawyldthing wrote: »

I don't get where you find spelling mistakes, as i've read back through it and can't find where you say I can't spell. I would recommend that young people do go to uni if it is right for them, but to think of the amount of debt they are getting into before starting, as for many courses i would not say it is worth it, as what use is a degree if you are never going to use it. It is a bit like buying something from a shop and leaving it on the shelf for years - a bit of a waste of time and money really. Grammar is maybe a bit different, but I can't see that many problems. Plus I now have my English degree specialism and a-level English Language, so it can't be that bad. :j

Heres one thats not on the 60k that has been quoted. If the lecturers did not want to be lecturers then thats their choice, but they do get paid a lot for what they actually do, and as for them all doing independent research, thats their choice.

I do think that people in most of these jobs are overpaid, and would not get the same amount of money in the same field in other industries, including:

There were others, but heres 2 as an example thats similar roles but huge differences in wages, because it is a university (but its not mine i must add)

Also, not all teacher training courses get any grants, especaially if you do the full 3 or 4 year teacher training.

The person i was talking about was for student support, such as the welfare officer that helps to deal with any accomodation issues, and is a volunteer role within uni. There are some that are paid positions that deal with the finance and issues relating to the accomodation ect, but that was what I meant.

One of the main problems, which will be shown again, is that university will again turn out to be something for the rich and priviledged and the rest of us that do not have the money to go will be left to either go later on when we can afford it after many years saving or not go at all, which i do think is unfortunate as I think that if we have the capabilities of studying then we should be able to have the support to go with it, and we all should pay back what we owe. In Canada for instance, what I found out is that they take a loan out and have i think its 6 months or a year to pay it back, after that it then turns into a high interest loan that has to be paid back. If the loans were paid back, and the people there were paid less, then it would mean that it could cost less to go to university and people that want the opportunity to go could go.

Plus i'm not an arts student or a business student, I am actually doing teacher training, a four year degree with loans from the student loan system otherwise i would never have been able to afford to go in a million years, and I am grateful for it. I just hope it is there and available to all in the future, as I think a lot of it could be in jepody should (or should i say when) unfortunately the tories end up in parliament, as I think it will be a major problem to us all.
i
But that is my opinion, and is my view, which I am entitled to.



My targets for this year: 1) to hopefully Graduate my degree with QTS 2) to save for graduation 3) To get down to 12 stone before graduation (believe me its been a long time since was that weight!) 4) to fund raise a grand for volunteering in Gambia! If you smile, the whole world will smile with you and you may make someones day! :T

melancholly

started re-reading that and thought ONW had had a personality change today!!! lol - sometimes i am so slow on the uptake! (although i never use caps on here myself :$)

Humphrey10

dawyldthing wrote: »

I don't get where you find spelling mistakes, as i've read back through it and can't find where you say I can't spell.

That's just scary. Being too lazy (and rude to anyone trying to read your posts) to bother spelling correctly is one thing, but not being able to find the mistakes once they are pointed out is something else.

Try using FireFox, it underlines misspelt words then you can right-click to see suggestions, like in MS Word.

McGuiver

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Heres one thats not on the 60k that has been quoted. If the lecturers did not want to be lecturers then thats their choice, but they do get paid a lot for what they actually do, and as for them all doing independent research, thats their choice.

I do think that people in most of these jobs are overpaid, and would not get the same amount of money in the same field in other industries, including:

There were others, but heres 2 as an example thats similar roles but huge differences in wages, because it is a university (but its not mine i must add)

Also, not all teacher training courses get any grants, especaially if you do the full 3 or 4 year teacher training.

The person i was talking about was for student support, such as the welfare officer that helps to deal with any accomodation issues, and is a volunteer role within uni. There are some that are paid positions that deal with the finance and issues relating to the accomodation ect, but that was what I meant.

One of the main problems, which will be shown again, is that university will again turn out to be something for the rich and priviledged and the rest of us that do not have the money to go will be left to either go later on when we can afford it after many years saving or not go at all, which i do think is unfortunate as I think that if we have the capabilities of studying then we should be able to have the support to go with it, and we all should pay back what we owe. In Canada for instance, what I found out is that they take a loan out and have i think its 6 months or a year to pay it back, after that it then turns into a high interest loan that has to be paid back. If the loans were paid back, and the people there were paid less, then it would mean that it could cost less to go to university and people that want the opportunity to go could go.

Plus i'm not an arts student or a business student, I am actually doing teacher training, a four year degree with loans from the student loan system otherwise i would never have been able to afford to go in a million years, and I am grateful for it. I just hope it is there and available to all in the future, as I think a lot of it could be in jepody should (or should i say when) unfortunately the tories end up in parliament, as I think it will be a major problem to us all.
i
But that is my opinion, and is my view, which I am entitled to.



My targets for this year: 1) to hopefully Graduate my degree with QTS 2) to save for graduation 3) To get down to 12 stone before graduation (believe me its been a long time since was that weight!) 4) to fund raise a grand for volunteering in Gambia! If you smile, the whole world will smile with you and you may make someones day! :T

I can think of better ways of getting my jollies, oldernotwiser!

MrsManda

The majority of lecturers in universities are not employed to be lecturers. At least at the universities I've had experience of but I don't imagine it's much different elsewhere. They are employed on the basis of their research interests and abilities and expected to take some lecture responsibilities on top of that. The reason for this is a leader in their field brings a lot more money into a university than they take from a salary as they attract a lot in terms of funding from other organisations such as the Medical Research Council, Arts and Humanities Research Council, Pharmaceutical industries etc... As such, their promotion prospects are directly related to research and the funding/reputation they generate rather than how many students they help get a 1st. No matter how much universities pay them, the best of them could get more money elsewhere, without having to deal with teaching, and having students contacting them expecting someone to do their thinking for them. And many students chose their university on the basis they are getting taught from leaders in their field.

Rosie75

dawyldthing wrote: »

no doubt its a tory that has written this so the rest of the country all go 'arr, those hard done by lecturers on 40k a year, we should really feel sorry for them!'

Some important points that the research in the guardian brings out:

Research grants would be assessed on "impact on the economy and society", and funds would be directed to the "stem" subjects – science, technology, engineering and maths.

There are plenty of academics working in science and maths who have issues with the whole "impact" agenda. As the criteria stands, most of the significant scientific discoveries that have been made in the last few centuries would simply not have received funding, since no one could have forseen the uses to which they might be deployed. Newton and Einstein themselves would not have received funding under these proposals. The other danger of impact is that government can chose to fund projects which fit its own political agenda. Do you really want a situation in which academics and intellectuals are controlled by the state? It's only a small step from telling people what they should research to telling them what the outcome of that research should be and policing their thinking.

£40k is not an excessive salary for someone who is a leading expert in their field, particularly when you factor in unpaid overtime and the fact that most academics end up paying out of their own pockets for research expenses such as travel, conference fees and books. It's less than a tube driver earns, and less than academics in other countries earn. As Mrs Manda says, academics are expected to cover their own wages (at least) through research income they bring into institutions.

Edited to add: I don't mean any disrepect to tube drivers, by the way. I'm just pointing out that it takes 4 months to train (excuse the pun) to be a tube driver. Lecturers at my instutition have spent eight years studying, then take an in-house teaching qualification and have a five-year probation period. They, therefore, tend not to earn the kind of salary quoted until they are in their mid to late thirties since it also takes several years of hourly-paid teaching to even build up the experience to get their first academic job.

The_One_Who

Don't even get me started on the 'need to be policy-relevant' debate. Although I can see where the government and associated research councils are coming from (they have to be accountable somehow) I hate this attitude of stifling research output. I also dislike that quite a lot of the time researchers need to know what they want to find, and end up writing a forest's worth of paper on it just to get the funding, before even thinking about getting out into 'the field' as it were.

As for the teaching-research side, does anyone know of how much paperwork they have to fill out for courses? It is ridiculous, they spend hours on this stuff.

exil

,<quote>
I do think that people in most of these jobs are overpaid, and would not get the same amount of money in the same field in other industries, including:

administrator
http://jobs.leedsmet.ac.uk/main/job_...307&job_search=

marketing:

http://jobs.leedsmet.ac.uk/main/job_...306&job_search=

compare this to other jobs with an external company:

administrator:
http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSeeking/...ce_job46330441

marketing:
http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSearch/J...Name=Yorkshire

</quote>

Not exactly comparing like with like. The size of the organisation one is working for is a major determinant of salary. For instance, 80k for a marketing director for an organisation the size of a university (budget of 100 million plus) seems fair enough. And for the administrator, 20k seems about right. According to Connexions salaries for office administators/admin assistants range from 15k to 25k so I guess the other job (pitched at just above the minimum wage) was aimed at school leavers getting their 1st job, it specifically says experience is not necessary. Perhaps it will be useful to you in future jobseeking to be able to tell the difference between ads asking for experienced staff and those open to those without experience....

Blacksheep1979

dawyldthing wrote: »

Grammar is maybe a bit different, but I can't see that many problems. Plus I now have my English degree specialism and a-level English Language, so it can't be that bad. :j

Longest sentence in this thread is right before the above comment...

dawyldthing wrote: »

I would recommend that young people do go to uni if it is right for them, but to think of the amount of debt they are getting into before starting, as for many courses i would not say it is worth it, as what use is a degree if you are never going to use it.

Just goes to show the amazing standard that these A'levels and 'degree specialisms' are at...

echelon101

iamana1ias wrote: »

Excluding medicine, science etc, how many useful degrees are there?

Engineering
Mathematics

So two. But the point I am getting is that the proposition of University is do a subject that you enjoy, and acquire the expertise to successfully apply for a job in that field.

If you want to do things in life you have to pay for them, especially tuition.