if 1 of you wants to marry and the other doesnt what do you do?

Nixer

I'm not convinced it was deceit at all. Two people often infer completely different things from the same conversation.

Why is marriage treated as the default and someone who doesn't want to marry has to give a reason why not? I've not yet seen (but may have missed) anyone ask why the OP's friend is so hell bent on marriage. Some people see marriage as being really important, for others its just an anachronism. Not all of the latter are men.

daska

Nixer wrote: »

Why is marriage treated as the default and someone who doesn't want to marry has to give a reason why not? I've not yet seen (but may have missed) anyone ask why the OP's friend is so hell bent on marriage. Some people see marriage as being really important, for others its just an anachronism. Not all of the latter are men.

I think a lot of people still believe the myth that it's only a little piece of paper that doesn't mean very much if you're 'really committed'. And to an extent that belief is correct because a strong relationship will survive with or without marriage. But the fact it that if marriage is only a religious / love contract then it is only as strong as the religious commitment / love of the less committed party. If the relationship breaks the person who owns the house gets to keep it. If one person dies the other has no automatic claim on the estate. Etc.

In fact marriage is effectively a legal property contract and for very little cost affords an enormous amount of protection to the financial wellbeing of both parties, and any children of the marriage, both in the event of death or if the relationship breaks down. A marriage is therefore very MSE. (Having a big wedding is optional )

whitewing

I love being married. It feels much more secure and settled. I lived with DH before and we bought a house together, and he lived with DS and me. It always felt long term but it didn't necessarily feel truly 'forever' until we were actually married. DH would have not worried about being married, but is very proud when he says 'my wife'.

Errata

daska wrote: »

I think a lot of people still believe the myth that it's only a little piece of paper that doesn't mean very much if you're 'really committed'. And to an extent that belief is correct because a strong relationship will survive with or without marriage. But the fact it that if marriage is only a religious / love contract then it is only as strong as the religious commitment / love of the less committed party. If the relationship breaks the person who owns the house gets to keep it. If one person dies the other has no automatic claim on the estate. Etc.

In fact marriage is effectively a legal property contract and for very little cost affords an enormous amount of protection to the financial wellbeing of both parties, and any children of the marriage, both in the event of death or if the relationship breaks down. A marriage is therefore very MSE. (Having a big wedding is optional )

It's suggested that marriage is an independent state with two citizens. No outside authority can interfere with it or be privy to it' business. In today's popular culture of co-habitation marriage can be viewed as quite an anarchic act - replacing the previous popular anarchic act of co-habitation.

Mushroomsgal

hi there,
im new and have been having a nose here!
I'm in a similar situation with my OH and I want to get married whereas he doesnt, his reasons are that he is not at all religious (i am) so the thought of standing in a church promising to things he doesnt believe in dotn sit well with him and he says things like we are sommitted etc it doesnt change how i feel about you, all of which i can understand but doesnt stop me wanting the wedding etc anyhoo, could this be the reason why? maybe she wants a wedding in a church and he is hestitant in which case a registary office and blessing might be a way forward
but it does sound like it might be somehting a bit more than this it sounds liek they talk quite a bit about it which is good, maybe they could have a celebrations almost like a wedding reception with cakes and rings and friends and family and then maybe she could change her name after this? i wonder if that will make her happy and him?!
i can understand her upset about feeling like she was lied to for a long time, i think i would feel the same way, but i am pretty sure i wouldnt want to throw away a guy that is a good partner and daddy to little ones. (although i would give him hell for lying to me!) but like others have said unless he actually lied, she might have jsut assumed and so on

i also have a shy friend who cant bear the thoguht of being the centre of attention so she has turned down her fellas proposal about 4 times now, maybe this could be some of the reason he isnt keen?

i hope they both come to a solution they are happy with soon.
xx

Nixer

No no no. Sorry but most people on here are trying to find clues in his behaviour to try and say that he really does want to get married it's just that X. To me it's blindingly obvious, he doesn't want to get married. The clue is in him saying to her that he doesn't want to get married...

I guess the point that I didn't make was that to me marriage is a bit of a hollow commitment unless you live somewhere where it's illegal/impossible to get a divorce.

My main issue with marriage is the historical context - woman as chattel, woman property of father, woman becomes property of man, woman changes from father's surname to husband's. Purely a business transaction. Yeah it might protect both parties now, but it didn't used to - rape wasn't recognised as such within marriage until 1978.

I suppose you can marry and do so rejecting all of that history and just do it for your own reasons whatever they are, but really, what's the point? That's not an aggressive question by the way, so married people don't be offended, I am just trying to figure out how I feel about it all.

Nixer

Oh and my thing about marriage been seen as the default was just that of all my female friends only one is married and the rest just aren't interested which seems the polar opposite to this thread.

I'll shut up now.

daska

Yes, thankfully women are legal entities in their own right now, not just chattel to be used to make the best possible alliance... historically the woman had no rights, she could be abandoned at whim. I believe the church claims that they acted in women's interests by promoting marriage as as legal contract rather than just a religious one - I'm not sure that I believe they did, certainly not that they did it with women's interests at heart LOL.

Fundamentally I believe it's wrong to make decisions on how things used to be. And it certainly used to be that if you had nothing then being married wouldn't make anything better but not being married would affect your reputation. Thankfully it's changed: Rape in marriage is recognised; Women are allowed to file for divorce; Children aren't automatically considered the property of their father (or even the guy named on the marriage certificate). Today, marriage is a sensible option rather than an anachronism. Or at least, that's what I believe...

wifeforlife

I feel very sorry for this girl - this is an ultimate betrayal in my view.

He made her a promise, he said they would get married. She compromised her views and herself with regards their child and their home in the secure knowledge she would be his wife and he has now removed that security.

It may be a piece of paper to him and others, it make be easy in his view and others view to get out of, but to this lady it was her aspiration. This lady now has to review her whole life plan and future based on his lies and selfishness. In my opinion if he didn't want to get married he should have had enough love and respect for her 10 years ago to let her go and find someone who did share the same views as her.

If this was my partner, I'd simply ask him if he loved me enough to marry me as I believed in it. I think if it means nothing to him, he should show selfless love and marry his girlfriend as it means so much to her.

Lotus-eater

Nixer wrote: »

I guess the point that I didn't make was that to me marriage is a bit of a hollow commitment unless you live somewhere where it's illegal/impossible to get a divorce.

Very true, very true. I have nothing against marriage, if someone feels they have to be married to be happy and secure, I feel a bit sorry for them that they are not secure enough in their relationship to manage without a worthless piece of paper.
Yet I'm also happy they have found what they need to feel happy and secure.

The OP's boyfriend may have changed his mind, when I was younger and fed with the doctrines and teachings of a middle class English family, I heartily believed in marriage as well. When I grew older and thought for myself, I saw the inconsistencies in the story, it just doesn't make any logical sense.

But it makes people happy and I think that's great, unfortunately it is often the people who believe so much in something, that think everyone else ought to do the same.