if 1 of you wants to marry and the other doesnt what do you do?

kegg_2

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Very true, very true. I have nothing against marriage, if someone feels they have to be married to be happy and secure, I feel a bit sorry for them that they are not secure enough in their relationship to manage without a worthless peice of paper.
Yet I'm also happy they have found what they need to feel happy and secure.

The OP's boyfreind may have changed his mind, when I was younger and fed with the doctrines and teachings of a middle class English family, I heartily believed in marriage as well. When I grew older and thought for myself, I saw the inconsistencies in the story, it just doesn't make any logical sense.

But it makes people happy and I think that's great, unfortunately it is often the people who believe so much in something, that think everyone else ought to do the same.

You view it as a worthless piece of paper as you are fully entitled to but many dont. This doesn't cause any problems in society unless you happen to choose a partner with the opposite view as they is no comprimise so one party is always going to have to give way on the issue.

Lotus-eater

kegg wrote: »

You view it as a worthless piece of paper as you are fully entitled to but many dont. This doesn't cause any problems in society unless you happen to choose a partner with the opposite view as they is no comprimise so one party is always going to have to give way on the issue.

Absolutely, although I think it's a shame that some people would think a loving, caring, sharing OH that they already live and has kids with, isn't enough.
Looking back in history, there is pitifully little to celebrate about marriage, (in fact much the other way) yet it is still hailed as the great "save it all" of the UK's deviant population. My Cameron wants to give us some spare change in our pocket for being married, as if that will force society to be better.

How do you compromise between two people that have opposing views on this subject? With a great deal of difficulty
Hopefully love will show through.

Errata

kegg wrote: »

You view it as a worthless piece of paper as you are fully entitled to but many dont. This doesn't cause any problems in society unless you happen to choose a partner with the opposite view as they is no comprimise so one party is always going to have to give way on the issue.

A fair point, which leads to both concerned giving thought to what is most important to them - their ethical and moral stance or their love for their partner.

Jo_R_2

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Very true, very true. I have nothing against marriage, if someone feels they have to be married to be happy and secure, I feel a bit sorry for them that they are not secure enough in their relationship to manage without a worthless piece of paper.
Yet I'm also happy they have found what they need to feel happy and secure.

That's quite patronising isn't it?:rolleyes:

What marriage means to you, whether for or against, is your opinion that you are entitled to; however you can't use your judgements and assume that because people don't feel the same, they are insecure.

Marriage holds different meaning for different people. I wouldn't say that piece of paper is worthless though is it? It grants rights that an unmarried couple don't have; I've read stories on MSE about unmarried couples where one partner has sadly died and the surviving partner has had to fight to keep their house from their partner's family - one I remember lost everything because she wasn't married.

It also confers other legal rights as well. But I think emotionally and spritually is where people focus and of course this is open to interpretation. People aren't right or wrong, they just feel how they feel, and IMO wanting marriage isn't a weakness. For me personally, as someone else has mentioned, me and my OH are committed long-term, but marriage for me says me and my OH are committed to the exclusion of others forever. I don't think me or OH are insecure to want that - or maybe we do need your pity and I just haven't realised;)

Anyhow to the OP, has your friend progressed in the situation - would be interested to find out what has happened.

daska

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I feel a bit sorry for them that they are not secure enough in their relationship to manage without a worthless piece of paper.

But marriage isn't about being secure IN a relationship because it's about protecting both parties, and any offspring, in the event of there no longer being a relationship - whether that's through death or divorce. If you aren't married you stand to lose everything. If your kids aren't acknowledged (because if dad won't/can't attend the registration then unless you're married his name can't be put on the birth certificate) then they stand to lose everything. It's a property contract.

Lotus-eater

Jo_R wrote: »

That's quite patronising isn't it?:rolleyes:

What marriage means to you, whether for or against, is your opinion that you are entitled to; however you can't use your judgements and assume that because people don't feel the same, they are insecure.

Marriage holds different meaning for different people. I wouldn't say that piece of paper is worthless though is it? It grants rights that an unmarried couple don't have; I've read stories on MSE about unmarried couples where one partner has sadly died and the surviving partner has had to fight to keep their house from their partner's family - one I remember lost everything because she wasn't married.

It also confers other legal rights as well. But I think emotionally and spritually is where people focus and of course this is open to interpretation. People aren't right or wrong, they just feel how they feel, and IMO wanting marriage isn't a weakness. For me personally, as someone else has mentioned, me and my OH are committed long-term, but marriage for me says me and my OH are committed to the exclusion of others forever. I don't think me or OH are insecure to want that - or maybe we do need your pity and I just haven't realised;)

Whether you think you need pity or not, is not a reason for me not to feel it. And I think you are making a bit much of when I said "I feel a bit sorry for..."

You are of course right about the legal aspects, it seems such a shame that a ceremony ported over from religion holds such sway with the lawmakers, but I'm sure that will change in time.

I think you are wrong in saying you aren't insecure to need to be married, but maybe I shouldn't have made it seem like I think it is your fault, because I don't. It's just the society you have been brought up in and the beliefs, feeling that you have picked up on. You feel unhappy about not being married/happy about being married, because that is how you have been taught to feel.

You can't seriously tell me if you were brought up by a society in the middle of no-where, that you would feel this over whelming need to have a legal document?

I think there is nothing wrong in stating your love for someone and wanting to be with only them for the rest of your life, that's something I prove everyday, to my OH.
If you feel it makes it better to do it in a way you like, then in all honesty, good for you, but I still think the way I do.
I suspect I am a little tired of hearing that the only way I can be a proper partner to my OH and a proper dad to my kids, is by being married.

euronorris

There are a lot more angles, interpretations and feelings involved in people's divided opinions than I first realised. All of them valid.

So, for the OP (well, OP's friend), I think the best thing to do is to try and understand exactly why he doesn't want to get married. Is it just that he doesn't believe in it, full stop, or are there other concerns?

A solution may be out there for them if they can talk about this in depth and with mutual consideration for each other's feelings.

I hope so. It would be sad to see an otherwise happy relationship end after so long.

OP, any update for us? I seem to remember your friend gave him 7 days to think about it? Is that right? I hope all is OK (well, as OK as can be).

Lotus-eater

daska wrote: »

But marriage isn't about being secure IN a relationship because it's about protecting both parties, and any offspring, in the event of there no longer being a relationship - whether that's through death or divorce. If you aren't married you stand to lose everything. If your kids aren't acknowledged (because if dad won't/can't attend the registration then unless you're married his name can't be put on the birth certificate) then they stand to lose everything. It's a property contract.

OH so now we're getting married in case we split up? Romantic

You can go and get a will done very cheaply which sorts all that out. If a dad won't be with a child/put his name on the registration certificate, then I call into question his worth as a dad. And forcing this dad who doesn't want his kids, into marriage, does what?

euronorris

Personally, the reason I would like to get Married, is not because of religion, or because it would make me feel more secure. I just like the idea of making a public declaration of our love and committment to each other and to celebrate that fact. Whether that be in a church, registry office or in a park, with thousands of guests or just 10 is irrelevant to me.

I used to have a very specific idea of how I wanted the wedding to be. Then I helped my sister plan and organise hers and now the idea of eloping seems far more enjoyable! lol. Don't get me wrong, her 'big day' was fantastic, but the stress and upset before hand.....OMG!!! Put me right off!

Katie-Kat-Kins

I've not read all the replies yet but I think the friend has been silly. She has accepted excuses all along that are meaningless, and has continued on blindly hoping that it would be ok.

Why on earth did she have a planned baby with this man when he wouldn't marry her if it was important to her???

Weddings don't HAVE to be expensive or have a lot of planning. When she decided she wanted a baby they could have given their notice at the registry office and married before she got pregnant for a couple of hundred quid.

But instead she burried her head in the sand and had the baby anyway thinking that this would make him marry her.

At the end of the day marriage is important to her and she believes in it, if he loves her won't he go through a ceremony that he doesn't see the point of to make her happy? If they have a lifelong partnership anyway from his point of view what difference would it make if they married???

I'd be asking him why he doesn't want to marry. Most people struggle to find a coherant reason. If he says what is the point, then she should answer "because it is very important to me and will make me happy". That alone is a very good reason if he has no other reasons not to marry. Of course there may be reaosns he doesn't want to but they may be ill-founded such as "it will cost alot" or he "doesn't want to stand up infront of lots of people". Your friend should also be armed with the practical reasons for marrying as many don't understand that there is no such thing as a common law wife and that marriage makes a difference to inheritence, rights as next of kin etc.

If he still won't marry her and hasn't given a rational explanation then i think she is right to question her relationship with him, and his feelings for her.