Problem son (sorry long)

samandona

I only read your original post, and then this update and wow, I feel for you.

Sounds like you're doing totally the right thing though. You've put up with alot of carp already and gone above and beyond what alot of people would do for their kids who are clearly a waste of space.

Best of luck with the future.

paddy's_mum

Karen - I really don't wish to be rude and I'm truly sorry that you're hurting all over again but you have got to stop bailing him out. A few basics, including food for the puppy he chose to buy when he was already deeply in the smelly stuff, plus now some rent ...... where will it stop, this time?

Do you know, I half wish a "dodgy mate" or two would give him a bit of a pasting - it might be that the only thing that will pull him up short is to reach his 'all my own work' rock bottom.

The sooner you get your house sold and move miles away to live with your partner (what a loyal chap he must be) the less guilt you will have laid upon your shoulders by this excuse for a loving and appreciative son - sorry.

You have not yet reached the point where you know beyond any doubt that you can't help him until and unless he wants to help himself. I'm sorry things are actually no better. All I can say is that I shall keep my fingers crossed for you. Take care.

Fang_3

I've just read through the thread, and I think you did the right thing at that time. I noticed that you noted that you threw him out a few times before? How old was he the first time? Under 16? Under 18?

karen310

Fang wrote: »

I've just read through the thread, and I think you did the right thing at that time. I noticed that you noted that you threw him out a few times before? How old was he the first time? Under 16? Under 18?

Only once actually threw him out , he was certainly not under 16 , more like 17 or 18 , other times he has latched onto words and interpreted them as having been thrown out like on the occasion at Christmas. He does frequently refer to having been thrown out but he has a somewhat selective memory

karen310

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Karen - I really don't wish to be rude and I'm truly sorry that you're hurting all over again but you have got to stop bailing him out. A few basics, including food for the puppy he chose to buy when he was already deeply in the smelly stuff, plus now some rent ...... where will it stop, this time?

Do you know, I half wish a "dodgy mate" or two would give him a bit of a pasting - it might be that the only thing that will pull him up short is to reach his 'all my own work' rock bottom.

The sooner you get your house sold and move miles away to live with your partner (what a loyal chap he must be) the less guilt you will have laid upon your shoulders by this excuse for a loving and appreciative son - sorry.

You have not yet reached the point where you know beyond any doubt that you can't help him until and unless he wants to help himself. I'm sorry things are actually no better. All I can say is that I shall keep my fingers crossed for you. Take care.

Thanks Paddysmum ,
I appreciate your reply , one of the reasons I have posted again is for the good sense and support I recieved last time.
My trouble is I suppose I am soft and hate seeing him in trouble , I imagine him with no food etc and cave in. I know I am my own worst enemy and need to be stronger.

Yes , my partner is a loyal chap , but I feel even he is weary of this now.
I need to toughen up and stop trying to "fix" things for him

ailuro2

You say you're soft, but have you considered maybe it's more serious than that, from an outsider's point of view, you can see why it might look like you might be enabling him - if you are always there to rescue him he will never have an incentive to pull himself up form where he is, and will spiral ever downwards. You sound like you care for him, and would not want this to happen.

Give yourself a shake, write down your rules on how you would like things to be, then get your partner's agreement that he will help you dish out some tough love.

Go back to counselling, talk it over there with someone who is impartial.

Sell the hosue and view it as a new beginning, as it is not the family home he will find it more difficult to treat it as a doss house.;)

Best Wishes, I think if you can get past the tough bump in the road you can slavage something from this, he does need to grow up a bit and learn to respect you for all the help you've given him.:A

bright_side

Re the counselling - i think you should definately resume it. The whole point of it is to help you understand your hurt and pain and make sense of it all. It always feels like it's making you worse before it starts to get better - but believe me, it is so worth it in the end. Take care xx

karen310

ailuro2 wrote: »

You say you're soft, but have you considered maybe it's more serious than that, from an outsider's point of view, you can see why it might look like you might be enabling him - if you are always there to rescue him he will never have an incentive to pull himself up form where he is, and will spiral ever downwards. You sound like you care for him, and would not want this to happen.

Give yourself a shake, write down your rules on how you would like things to be, then get your partner's agreement that he will help you dish out some tough love.

Go back to counselling, talk it over there with someone who is impartial.
Sell the hosue and view it as a new beginning, as it is not the family home he will find it more difficult to treat it as a doss house.;)

Best Wishes, I think if you can get past the tough bump in the road you can slavage something from this, he does need to grow up a bit and learn to respect you for all the help you've given him.:A

Thanks for replying .
One of the things the counsellor did mention was enabling , and yes I do enable him to behave in certain ways, and in some ways I probably "invite" him to
When he turns things on to me I end up defending myself and almost apologising !
I need to learn not to rise to things , and I will get back in touch with the counsellor this week

Fang_3

karen310 wrote: »

Only once actually threw him out , he was certainly not under 16 , more like 17 or 18 , other times he has latched onto words and interpreted them as having been thrown out like on the occasion at Christmas. He does frequently refer to having been thrown out but he has a somewhat selective memory

Well there's a difference between 17 and 18. You've said that his problems have been going on for a long time. How long? I don't think you'll be able to be at peace before you find out why he's doing it? It's important not to look for excuses for his behaviour, but the reasons for it. I think you underestimate the capacity a child has to hurt its parent, due to real or perceived acts in the past. What may have seen to an adult to be nothing more than a parent teaching their child a lesson, can be seen by a teenager as a parent abandoning them and then placing conditions on what should be unconditional love. That wouldn't be something that anyone could forgive easily.

As I said before I think you did the right thing at the time, but now you're not doing the right thing. Every chance you get you're enabling him, and that's not helping him. I also don't think it's fair to compare him to your other children by saying that they all went through the same thing. Unless they are the same child, they didn't. Even if they're the same age, they didn't go through the same thing. They react differently, their emotional development will be at different stages and so damaged at different stages. It seems to me that he possibly at first acting out for attention, and has progressively got worse because it's the only way he can get attention.

I don't mean to say this to upset you, but it seems that you speak with great affection for your other children but not for your son. And frankly at least one of your children hasn't made the best choices in life. A skint single-mum for example. Is there any chance that he could feel that you've supported her and not him?

Whatever the answers to these questions are, he's your son and he needs you to be strong. He might want you to do lots for him and allow him to treat you like a doormat, but that's not what he needs. And with one parent already gone, this falls to you. Good luck.

karen310

Fang wrote: »

Well there's a difference between 17 and 18. You've said that his problems have been going on for a long time. How long? I don't think you'll be able to be at peace before you find out why he's doing it? It's important not to look for excuses for his behaviour, but the reasons for it. I think you underestimate the capacity a child has to hurt its parent, due to real or perceived acts in the past. What may have seen to an adult to be nothing more than a parent teaching their child a lesson, can be seen by a teenager as a parent abandoning them and then placing conditions on what should be unconditional love. That wouldn't be something that anyone could forgive easily.

As I said before I think you did the right thing at the time, but now you're not doing the right thing. Every chance you get you're enabling him, and that's not helping him. I also don't think it's fair to compare him to your other children by saying that they all went through the same thing. Unless they are the same child, they didn't. Even if they're the same age, they didn't go through the same thing. They react differently, their emotional development will be at different stages and so damaged at different stages. It seems to me that he possibly at first acting out for attention, and has progressively got worse because it's the only way he can get attention.

I don't mean to say this to upset you, but it seems that you speak with great affection for your other children but not for your son. And frankly at least one of your children hasn't made the best choices in life. A skint single-mum for example. Is there any chance that he could feel that you've supported her and not him?

Whatever the answers to these questions are, he's your son and he needs you to be strong. He might want you to do lots for him and allow him to treat you like a doormat, but that's not what he needs. And with one parent already gone, this falls to you. Good luck.

Thanks for replying , you ask how long his problems have been going on , he has always been a "handful" , even at primary school , cheekiness , etc and always denying things even when there could be no doubt he had done things.
Even while we were still a "happy family unit" he was helping himself to things from the other kids rooms , often hard to prove as I said in my first post .
He had various "mentors" when at high school for behavioural issues.
I didnt mean to compare him to my other kids when I say they all went through the same things , obviously they were at different ages , but if anything I think he had more input and support , he was the only one still at home for a long time and had time , attention ,holidays and things that the others didnt , I feel that often we had a good rapport , and I have been the first to sing his praises in the past and praised him often to his face obviously he also had his share of tellings off too due to things that went on.

My "skint single mum daughter " actually cut the whole family out of her life for 4 years when she took up with the father of her child so she recieved no support that he could feel was unfair. That is resolved now and would have been an entire thread of its own . We have returned to the good relationship we had (probably better if anything) she continues to have no contact with her father and I respect her decision , she is now doing a degree (hence being skint at the moment) and hopefully making good choices now , I hope he sees her as a good example but I hope I have never compared any of my kids to each other and even during the worst of times with him I have spoken of him with affection to other people , he has many really great qualities that I hope will shine through again one day.
I am sure he does feel I have abandoned him , but unconditional love is a hard one. I do love him and have told him so , but I have also told him I dont love some of his behaviour.
I dont want to sound like I am being defensive here as I have obviously made mistakes that obviously I dont see.
When you say I am enabling him now and not helping him , do you feel I shouldnt have helped him out ?
Its so hard to judge what to do when your heart says one thing and your head doesnt always agree