economy radiator company

grahamc2003

starryeyed4 wrote: »

I have 2 holiday apartments that are heated by electric. Downstairs has 5 night storage heaters, 1 panel convector heater and a wall convector in the bathroom. Having lived in the downstairs one for a while we find that it's warm in the morning when you get up and cold by 6pm in the evening as all the heat has disappeared in the daytime. Most holiday makers are out during the day and so arrive home to find it rather chilly. There is no mains gas available and it would cost around £8k to put oil central heating in.I only have a small budget as it has been a very quiet year, any idea's guy's? I don't think it would be very practical as it's a holiday let to have small heaters (and leads) around the place as it would be a hazard to those walking around.

It looks like some of the elements in your storage heaters have stopped working. If you replace the non-working ones, I'm sure your storage heaters, correctly used, assuming they are reasonably modern and the insulation is reasonable, should keep the place warm till bed time, unless it is exceptionally cold, when there may be an hour or so of secondary heating necessary, but that would be very rare.

Do you get many holidaymakers in the depths of winter?

The last thing you should consider is the heaters which are the subject of this thread, which often first time posters try to promote in roundabout ways. They would cost a great deal initially - well overpriced according to those subjected to the sales pitch, and have very high running costs being run on full priced electricity (and not cheap rate like storage heaters).

If you don't mind paying a high running cost and are set on getting panel heaters like those of this thread, then there are some quality inexpensive ones around, less than £100 each should easily do it.

starryeyed4

Thank you for replying Graham. The storage heaters where installed by a previous owner I think in 1992 ish. Some are working ok but to replace them with new night storage seems as expensive as ERC. I have a few people holidaying over the winter but I have to keep the place aired as it will deteriorate if it doesn't have some sort of heating. I was wondering if the ERC heaters, as they can be put on on timer like other central heating would be effective when people are in. When they are not the heaters could still be programmed to use economy 7.

the_heating_engineer

Electric heating is more expensive than gas heating because gas is about 4p per kw/hr and electric is about 12p per kw/hr. However electric heating is maintenance free and is 100% efficient in converting electric energy into heat energy but gas CH is NEVER more than 90% efficient and of course, a lot of heat simply goes up the flue. Further, your gas boiler will require replacing and modern boilers will not last anywhere near as long as the older, less complicated models.
Having thermostatic control in each room is something easily provided with electric too.
All these things bring rather electric closer in line with gas.
Economy 7 is terribly wasteful and is a dying out rapidly. E7 rads require VERY large kw/hr & modern E7 rads are actually worse than the older ones. E7 daytime tariffs are around 30% to 55% more than say your next door neighbour with central heating on a normal single rate tariff. They cannot convect unless they have fans so your ceiling temperature will be about 7 degrees F. more than your floor and you'll wake at 7 AM roasting and you'll come home from work and your home will be now cold unless you've a wonderful uValue. So you'll need back up heating which, due to your tariff, will be crazy expensive. Not only that you've got to guess the next day's weather in an attempt to control them!
Germany and Sweden have recently introduced partial bans to the fitting of E7 heating and Sweden will have banned it outright by 2015 with Germany following in 2020.
About time too. Dinasour technology in my opinion. Social housing providers with E7 in their tenanted properties receive more complaints regarding E7 heating than ANYTHING else. They're all replacing them where possible over the next few years.
Underfloor heating is not a retro fit option and I don't like it as I do not believe it is suitable for the UK climate. It may be ok for Scandanavia or Canada where it's cold for 6 months but here it takes far too long to react to changing temperatures over the 24 hour winter period. It's fine for small areas like bathrooms though where you can basically leave it on, on a low setting.
The golden rule? Insulate. Insulate. Insulate.
In my next post I'll look at the various electric heating rads on the market and try to dispel some myths.

GTG

the_heating_engineer wrote: »

Electric heating is more expensive than gas heating because gas is about 4p per kw/hr and electric is about 12p per kw/hr. However electric heating is maintenance free and is 100% efficient in converting electric energy into heat energy but gas CH is NEVER more than 90% efficient and of course, a lot of heat simply goes up the flue. Further, your gas boiler will require replacing and modern boilers will not last anywhere near as long as the older, less complicated models.
Having thermostatic control in each room is something easily provided with electric too.
All these things bring rather electric closer in line with gas.
Economy 7 is terribly wasteful and is a dying out rapidly. E7 rads require VERY large kw/hr & modern E7 rads are actually worse than the older ones. E7 daytime tariffs are around 30% to 55% more than say your next door neighbour with central heating on a normal single rate tariff. They cannot convect unless they have fans so your ceiling temperature will be about 7 degrees F. more than your floor and you'll wake at 7 AM roasting and you'll come home from work and your home will be now cold unless you've a wonderful uValue. So you'll need back up heating which, due to your tariff, will be crazy expensive. Not only that you've got to guess the next day's weather in an attempt to control them!
Germany and Sweden have recently introduced partial bans to the fitting of E7 heating and Sweden will have banned it outright by 2015 with Germany following in 2020.
About time too. Dinasour technology in my opinion. Social housing providers with E7 in their tenanted properties receive more complaints regarding E7 heating than ANYTHING else. They're all replacing them where possible over the next few years.
Underfloor heating is not a retro fit option and I don't like it as I do not believe it is suitable for the UK climate. It may be ok for Scandanavia or Canada where it's cold for 6 months but here it takes far too long to react to changing temperatures over the 24 hour winter period. It's fine for small areas like bathrooms though where you can basically leave it on, on a low setting.
The golden rule? Insulate. Insulate. Insulate.
In my next post I'll look at the various electric heating rads on the market and try to dispel some myths.

Excellent post thank you, how long can I expect to get out of my Potterton Suprema installed in 2002, obviously depends upon usage but a ballpark figure would do. Looking forward to the sequel.

Cardew

Yet another first time poster on one of these threads; I suspect your conclusion will be favourable toward electrical heating provided by ????

If you do post again try to separate your opinion and facts and it would help if you get your facts correct!

the_heating_engineer

Look after it and it will look after you. Possibly another 10 years.

the_heating_engineer

....What facts?

HappyMJ

the_heating_engineer wrote: »

....What facts?

The bit where you say a lot of the heat goes up the flue. The efficiency figures of 90% take that into account. 10% of the gas burnt is converted into waste gases and emitted out the flue. Most of the waste heat from that gas is recovered in modern condensing boilers so the temperature of the flue gases is quite low.

The second bit is the roasting house at 7am. Modern E7 radiators have better insulation and an output damper which the user must change to low as they retire for the night to retain the heat in the bricks. If the output setting is left on high the damper is left open then the room will be warm to roasting but if it's set to minimum then the room won't be freezing but it'll be a reasonable cool temperature.

Cardew

the_heating_engineer wrote: »

....What facts?

Try this:

E7 daytime tariffs are around 30% to 55% more than say your next door neighbour with central heating on a normal single rate tariff.

I assume you mean E7 daytime charges?

The premium is more like 15% rather than 30% to 55%. Check it!

Heat can't convect without a fan you state? - really!

I am afraid your post is typical of those from people with a vested interest in knocking E7 storage heating(which we all agree has limitations) and promote 'normal' electrical heating.

I note you conveniently don't mention heating water on E7 off-peak rates, or running appliances during the night.

However having said all the above, there is a case to be put for 'normal' electrical heating - particularly in small properties; and that point has been discussed in many threads.

The purpose of this thread and others(Rointe/Wibo etc) is to debunk the claims in the advertising material that endow these overpriced heaters with magical properties.

So before you post again to 'dispel some myths' will you agree that a £10 fan heater or £20 oil filled radiator will produce EXACTLY the same amount of heat, for the same running cost, as these radiators that cost many hundreds or even thousands of pounds each.

Will you also agree that the above applies regardless of the radiators filled with any substance known to man, and/or coated with any substance known to man.

There are a number of Electrical and Mechanical Engineers who contribute to this thread, who will be interested in your response.

P.S. Sorry we should have welcomed you to MSE - impressive name you have chosen.

Cardew

the_heating_engineer wrote: »

They cannot convect unless they have fans so your ceiling temperature will be about 7 degrees F. more than your floor .

Found this explanation of convection.

http://www.gcsescience.com/pen8-convection-current.htm

As that is only GCSE level, presumably your training as a heating engineer differs? Perhaps it is one of the 'myths' you intend to dispel?