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o2 removing chargeable bolt ons
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Some of the idiocy in this thread is amazing.
There is no legal right to demand cancellation of a contract based on the removal of a service that does not form part of your contractual agreement.- O2 have not removed any bolt-ons from any existing account - therefore no detrimental effect to existing customers
- All free bolt-ons for accounts over £35 or offered by retentions are still there
- The terms and conditions state that O2 must notify anyone of a change that could be detrimental to their current contractual agreement as nothing being removed from any contract there again is no need to notify of this change 30 days prior to it happening
- any new customer has not yet taken a contract and can therefore not use the removal of a chargeable additional service as reason to cancel at a later point.
- Somebody who is currently on an agreement with O2 is no longer able to add an additional chargeable extra that does not form part of their contractual agreement. i.e someone who signs a contract for 400 minutes and 500 text is not signing a contract for 400 minutes, 500 text and the opportunity to add extras to contract when they see fit.
- O2 has the right to change and remove any promotion from new and existing customers at any point as long as it does not effect their existing agreement. Which has not happend
Chargeable bolt-ons that are NOT part of a current contractual agreement are being removed as they are NOT part of your contractual agreement they CANNOT have a detrimental effect on you contractual agreement.
I think i've repeated myself numerous times here but hopefully it makes sense
Do you work for o2? I get the distinct impression that you do.0 -
Wrong for a fact it does indeed form part of your contractual agreement as been pointed out "MANY TIMES" and a few of you are determine to igrone it. This has been shown to be the case in many cases in the past for example were like this with 0870 being inclusive, sending SMS aboard from inclusive amount, etc. etc.. But when it came to the crunch, it stood that unlike what the network "WANT YOU TO BELIEVE" you could and alot of ppl did cancel.Some of the idiocy in this thread is amazing.
There is no legal right to demand cancellation of a contract based on the removal of a service that does not form part of your contractual agreement.- O2 have not removed any bolt-ons from any existing account - therefore no detrimental effect to existing customers
Yes that is correct and can not be cancelled on that ground but that is hiding the "REASON" why ppl can cancel, see below.- All free bolt-ons for accounts over £35 or offered by retentions are still there
That is good but is a different issue cause what rententions offer you is nothing to do with your contract, they offer you things above your contract to "KEEP YOU ON THEIR NETWORK."- The terms and conditions state that O2 must notify anyone of a change that could be detrimental to their current contractual agreement as nothing being removed from any contract there again is no need to notify of this change 30 days prior to it happening
If you are saying they have not notify anyone of the change within the 30 days prior to it happening, well as your company mandate down to the operators on the other line is "people cant cancel for this" that should tell you they feel it is not detrimental. But it is a risky line to do (hence why alot of companies in the past have announce changes even if they feel it is of benefit to cover themselves.) Cause they might of miss something which seem to be a case here, hence if someone really want to take it all the way to court and get the contract cancel but also claim for damage. And before people say oh no that wont happen, as I found by mistake there was a case with Orange.- any new customer has not yet taken a contract and can therefore not use the removal of a chargeable additional service as reason to cancel at a later point.
Well as someone just ask and going to reply to him after this, you are right cant cancel but not cause it is not / is detrimental, but because the change is known to them hence signing with the knowledge of it all. Hence why they cant cancel. Of course you will get some ppl (as always) who think "oh if I sign up now after it is announce I will be able to cancel my contract and keep my new expensive Nokia N96" but that wont happen.- Somebody who is currently on an agreement with O2 is no longer able to add an additional chargeable extra that does not form part of their contractual agreement. i.e someone who signs a contract for 400 minutes and 500 text is not signing a contract for 400 minutes, 500 text and the opportunity to add extras to contract when they see fit.
That is the bit I think is getting this topic going round and round. "That is the point," it does have that. As Diamond pointed out where it stated. And that is where it become detrimental. The reason cause when sign up, you sign up with the bolt ons as well which can be added / remove / change over the life of the contract. So one month can have for example unlimited SMS, next month unlimited landline, following month (say all friends gone aboard) O2 to O2,, etc. etc... Each bundle would cost £7.50 and I think Fair use policy is 3000 for each of them. So even if each SMS / landline / O2 to O2 cost just 1p that would still make a bill of £30 if use 3000. But if use the average 10p = £300. That is a huge increase from £7.50 cap to £300. It is that feature that make it detrimental...- O2 has the right to change and remove any promotion from new and existing customers at any point as long as it does not effect their existing agreement. Which has not happend
Which is what has indeed happen. As Diamond has said and what networks have done in the past (even O2 for a while with 0870 / 0845 issue). Cause the agreement with the customer is they can add bolt ons. Just use other example. In the past with Orange / T-Mobile one could change their tariffs up and down as they see fit. Now I think they have to wait upto 11 months before they can downgrade their tariff. And this is stated on the T&C but only for new customers not existing customers who sign up after x date. Reason for this change is due to all the cashback issue and stuff which is something else. But anyway what they could of done is say from 1st June people who sign up will not have the option to add bolt ons, but people who sign up before 1st June can add / remove bolts on as what they sign up to. Than they are not changing the agreement between existing customers. But not allowing to add it, they have cause that is what they sign up for.The chargeable bolt-ons are that are part of an existing contractual agreements are NOT being removed.
Chargeable bolt-ons that are NOT part of a current contractual agreement are being removed as they are NOT part of your contractual agreement they CANNOT have a detrimental effect on you contractual agreement.
I think i've repeated myself numerous times here but hopefully it makes sense
This is the bit I think is the big crunch of what is causing people to go round. (and I would say now it probably be best to say REDUX, Diamonds, yourself, hieveryone, etc is best to say we agree to disagree. Hence if people ask in future say might be able to cancel / might not but make your own mind up.) Anyway back to the thing, just cause those chargeable bolt on which a "Person has exercise their right under their contract to use" is still being left on, the fact that the other bolt ons they could under their contract exercise and add at any time has been now remove from their choice. Hence this is detrimental to them. Other way to look at it if some of you feel not having the bolt on is not detrimental, than why leave ones that people have selected already on their tariffs. Cause as some of u pointed out not having them would be detrimental but make it more obivous.0 -
Guys,
Just one question. IF i buy a contract phone from o2 today, can i cancel this contract from june 1st onwards on the grounds as state above, by paying no termination fee. in that way i think i would atleast be saving a good handset.
any thoughts please....
Lets assume for a moment (for arguement sake everyone) that one could cancel due to this change....
If you sign up to it now, no you would not be able to cancel Baldude (expect as one person pointed out due to the 14 day cancellation / cooling off period.) Cause you knew of the change before signing up. If one could sign up and cancel like that everyone would sign up now to "GET THEIR FREE TOP OF THE RANGE HANDSET". and hence company would struggle with all the payouts on phones. (no free phones anymore etc.)
"IF" you sign up say 20th May, and than on the 28th May it was "announce" of the change, than you would be able to cancel. But you would have than a choice of either cancelling under the 14 days or just cancel the contract (network would try and make you choose the 14 days due to they get the handset back.) But you can just cancel and keep the handset. Cause the handset is nothing to do with the contract it is actually a seperate issue it is like a free gift. Which to this day cause confusion. (please everyone dont start a flame war about is the mobile phone part of contract or not now.)
So in summary as you can see with this issue it is not clean cut if one can cancel due to the bolt ons, but in any case sorry you miss the opportunity to try. I myself am out of contract so this whole bolt on issue does not effect me cause if I want to cancel I can just give my notice and leave. But I have no intention of that, in fact looking at getting a signal booster to stay with O2 cause have to say they do have good tariffs / customer service still0 -
Thanks Iceburn. I know it was cheeky but, after all o2 is being regularly paid from me since 2004, hence thought, if i could squeeze some money out of it.Lets assume for a moment (for arguement sake everyone) that one could cancel due to this change....
If you sign up to it now, no you would not be able to cancel Baldude (expect as one person pointed out due to the 14 day cancellation / cooling off period.) Cause you knew of the change before signing up. If one could sign up and cancel like that everyone would sign up now to "GET THEIR FREE TOP OF THE RANGE HANDSET". and hence company would struggle with all the payouts on phones. (no free phones anymore etc.)
"IF" you sign up say 20th May, and than on the 28th May it was "announce" of the change, than you would be able to cancel. But you would have than a choice of either cancelling under the 14 days or just cancel the contract (network would try and make you choose the 14 days due to they get the handset back.) But you can just cancel and keep the handset. Cause the handset is nothing to do with the contract it is actually a seperate issue it is like a free gift. Which to this day cause confusion. (please everyone dont start a flame war about is the mobile phone part of contract or not now.)
So in summary as you can see with this issue it is not clean cut if one can cancel due to the bolt ons, but in any case sorry you miss the opportunity to try. I myself am out of contract so this whole bolt on issue does not effect me cause if I want to cancel I can just give my notice and leave. But I have no intention of that, in fact looking at getting a signal booster to stay with O2 cause have to say they do have good tariffs / customer service still
Same here, I have got a contract too but dont want to cancel it, coz i already have got good no of mins and unlimited landline bolt on and i do not want to mess up with it now.
Thanks for your elaborated reply once agin.
Baldude0 -
Wrong for a fact it does indeed form part of your contractual agreement as been pointed out "MANY TIMES" and a few of you are determine to igrone it. This has been shown to be the case in many cases in the past for example were like this with 0870 being inclusive, sending SMS aboard from inclusive amount, etc. etc..
Where, in the law, is this stated? Link?
Bought is to buy. Brought is to bring.0 -
hieveryone wrote: »Where, in the law, is this stated? Link?
Dont really know what you are asking but if you are asking where have O2 has broken T&C and someone has acted on it
here is one of many
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=311560 -
hieveryone wrote: »Where, in the law, is this stated? Link?
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1943/cukpga_19430040_en_1 Here is the 1943 first draft, enjoy the subsequent changes until 2009 ! LOL, its not a short read !!!
Again HiEveryone thanks for the heads up where o2 failed us
x
UK Contract Law to date:
When T&C are to be amending from those such party/ies agreed to at contract commencement the other party/ies MUST have 30 days notice of such changes from the other party/ies & from the point of notification of such changes of contractual T&C the other party/ies have a further 30 days to assess those changes to consider the contract "null &void". Usually the disadvantage/detriment has already happened with the proposed T&C amendment.
Bring in additional costs ( ie o2 - removal of selected £7.50 capped usage plans whilst in minimum contract term ) to other party and any company is STUPID to deny NULL of such contract changes - that's when big companies against each other end up in court, a consumer contract is no different under UK Contract law.
BOC: "A failure by a party to perform an obligation under said contract"
o2 firstly failed to inform customers, o2 continue to provide service for SAID customers in minimum contract *minus* 30 days flexibility or CAPPED usage at £7.50, no flexible or uncapped usage may run into hundreds of pounds to other parties financial detriment for remaining minimum term.SO... now England its the Scots turn to say dont leave the UK, stay in Europe with us in the UK, dont let the tories fool you like they did us with empty lies... You will be leaving the UK aswell as Europe0 -
no flexible or uncapped usage may run into hundreds of pounds to other parties financial detriment for remaining minimum term.
This repeated assertion of hundreds of pounds of damages is ludicrously hyperbolic.
Anyone currently without any bolt-ons at all who at a certain point in the future foresees a steep increase in the use of their phone can still uprate their tariff to add more minutes.
And all higher tariffs include a full range of 7 options for a free bolt-on.
Anyone with a free bolt-on either now or in the future is scarcely affected; indeed not at all if they have the internet one and are careful when wanting to add a further charged one.
So what is the damage to that person who jumps up that one level in tariff to get a choice of free bolt-on? The increment from a contract without a choice of free bolt-on to the cheapest that includes one is £5 - £30 to £35 at full price on 18 month deals, £25 to £30 on 24 months, £15 to £20 on Simplicity or Retentions. This £5 seems to be less than £7.50, so no damage.
In law, there is a general principle that a party has an obligation to mitigate further losses. It's not very likely a court would entertain a claim for hundreds of pounds when defended by someone astute enough to ask why a few quid wasn't invested in limiting it, and perhaps even why the network's advice to do so was ignored.0 -
This repeated assertion of hundreds of pounds of damages is ludicrously hyperbolic.
Not really cause will explain below after your other comments.
Anyone currently without any bolt-ons at all who at a certain point in the future foresees a steep increase in the use of their phone can still uprate their tariff to add more minutes.
And all higher tariffs include a full range of 7 options for a free bolt-on.
Agree there but one thing didnt the original poster of this news or someone else said once you chose those free bolt on it cant be change or change for 3 months?Anyone with a free bolt-on either now or in the future is scarcely affected; indeed not at all if they have the internet one and are careful when wanting to add a further charged one.
So what is the damage to that person who jumps up that one level in tariff to get a choice of free bolt-on? The increment from a contract without a choice of free bolt-on to the cheapest that includes one is £5 - £30 to £35 at full price on 18 month deals, £25 to £30 on 24 months, £15 to £20 on Simplicity or Retentions. This £5 seems to be less than £7.50, so no damage.
Agree there, but I think what some ppl are getting at is you can say now with the change is as follows
You can choose 1 free (if on right tariff) bolt on between 7 choices. But than to add other one you only have a choice of
* unlimited web
* unlimited wi-fi
* o2 family
Where is unlimited landline / unlimited sms / unlimited O2 to O2 / unlimited weekend calls (family is a cut down version / mixture of unlimited sms / o2 bolton, in fact one can say a good bolt on in its own right but not really a replacement for those two. Since it can only be use between O2 numbers and only a few chosen numbers of O2, not any.)
So in the past one could have for example the following
main tariff £14.69 300 minutes cross network and 600 sms with free O2 to O2 bolton (simonly and using prices on O2 which I think is taken into account the reduce VAT)
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited landline
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited weekend
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited web
Now in the past that tariff would of cost you £36.86 but that will give you 300 cross network minutes to use Monday to Friday, Sat and Sun 3000 (fair use policy) minutes cross network, 3000 (FUP) minutes anytime to landline, unlimited (1/3GB not sure FUP) web allowance, and 3000 minutes anytime o2 to o2.
Current offer
main tariff £14.69 300 minutes cross network and 600 sms with free o2 to o2 bolton
choose £7.39 unlimited web
Now on the new changes, tariff will cost you £22.08 but will only give you just 300 cross network minutes to use Monday to Friday, 3000 (FUP) O2 to O2, unlimited (1/3GB not sure FUP) web allowance
You are saving £14.78 but you now cant have unlimited landline and unlimited weekend (could of even included SMS but for alot of ppl (not all) 600 is enough.
Now the cost of the calls cost 19.6p a minute for landline / mobiles. If use the max allowed under FUP which would of been 6000 for both landline and weekend deal.
6000 x 0.196 = £1176 in charges. (if one assume that is extreme we will now reduce by half each time)
if 3000 x 0.196 = £588 in charges
1500 x 0.196 = £294 in charges
750 x 0.196 = £147 in charges (one could choose O2 1200 and probably would be the same as old tariff in charges
375 x 0.195 = £73.50 in charges (one could choose O2 600 and probably would be the same as old tariff in charges)
So as you can see from that above, it is quite possible (and still be quite low of the FUP) to make huge bills on the new changes which can be damaging.In law, there is a general principle that a party has an obligation to mitigate further losses. It's not very likely a court would entertain a claim for hundreds of pounds when defended by someone astute enough to ask why a few quid wasn't invested in limiting it, and perhaps even why the network's advice to do so was ignored.
Agree but as the example below show there is situations where you cant limit it cause of the now changed tariff plan expect of course not use it. But than what the point in having it than.0 -
So in the past one could have for example the following
main tariff £14.69 300 minutes cross network and 600 sms with free O2 to O2 bolton (simonly and using prices on O2 which I think is taken into account the reduce VAT)
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited landline
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited weekend
pay an extra £7.39 and choose unlimited web
Now in the past that tariff would of cost you £36.86 but that will give you 300 cross network minutes to use Monday to Friday, Sat and Sun 3000 (fair use policy) minutes cross network, 3000 (FUP) minutes anytime to landline, unlimited (1/3GB not sure FUP) web allowance, and 3000 minutes anytime o2 to o2.
Current offer
main tariff £14.69 300 minutes cross network and 600 sms with free o2 to o2 bolton
choose £7.39 unlimited web
Now on the new changes, tariff will cost you £22.08 but will only give you just 300 cross network minutes to use Monday to Friday, 3000 (FUP) O2 to O2, unlimited (1/3GB not sure FUP) web allowance
You are saving £14.78 but you now cant have unlimited landline and unlimited weekend (could of even included SMS but for alot of ppl (not all) 600 is enough.
I'll need to double check this in work but I'm pretty sure you couldn't add certain bolt ons to the £15 sim only.
Bought is to buy. Brought is to bring.0
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