The depressively optimistic moneysaving thread

Sazbo

AB - how do you know the people you saw weren't depressed? How do you know they were coping? Most people don't believe me when I tell them I suffer from depression and have done so most of my life - I guess I don't exhibit the "classic" depressive signs - whatever they might be. Nor was it anything to do with my "expectations".

I totally agree beth... lol I say that a lot, don't I?:D Depression has to arise from a combination of factors, surely? Some physical, some emotional, some circumstantial? Which is why not everyone in the same set of circumstances gets depressed. If only it was that simple but it isn't. Are we seriously saying people in squalor aren't affected by depression? Or worse, that because they are poor that they have no expectations? They are too ignorant to know otherwise, is that it? "Happy as pigs in sh*t"?

Rich, poor, young, old, black, white, beautiful or ugly. Sorry if I sound like a stuck record saying this again but depression affects all kinds of people in all kinds of circumstances. But not always the same circumstances. And if we knew why that was, the world would be a lovely, depression-free place. But unfortunately it isn't and I don't think making simplistic assumptions about mental illness is going to make it so.

I'll shut up now, lol
Sx

absolutebounder

Sazbo wrote: »

AB - how do you know the people you saw weren't depressed? How do you know they were coping? Most people don't believe me when I tell them I suffer from depression and have done so most of my life - I guess I don't exhibit the "classic" depressive signs - whatever they might be. Nor was it anything to do with my "expectations".

I totally agree beth... lol I say that a lot, don't I?:D Depression has to arise from a combination of factors, surely? Some physical, some emotional, some circumstantial? Which is why not everyone in the same set of circumstances gets depressed. If only it was that simple but it isn't. Are we seriously saying people in squalor aren't affected by depression? Or worse, that because they are poor that they have no expectations? They are too ignorant to know otherwise, is that it? "Happy as pigs in sh*t"?

Rich, poor, young, old, black, white, beautiful or ugly. Sorry if I sound like a stuck record saying this again but depression affects all kinds of people in all kinds of circumstances. But not always the same circumstances. And if we knew why that was, the world would be a lovely, depression-free place. But unfortunately it isn't and I don't think making simplistic assumptions about mental illness is going to make it so.

I'll shut up now, lol
Sx

Hi saz
The how do you know question is a good one in relation to Africa in that as much of the population dont get enough money to visit the doctor in the town and probably only have the witch doctor to see in the country the official statistics are probably highly unreliable.
In the poor areas what we call poverty in the uk would be living like royalty to them. They have nothing, no work no santation no healthcare. They are dumped on from a great height by the government and religion too and even their own people. Their environment is terrible and often no parents. sometimes 10 people living in a house the size of my living room.
So whilst I would have used my old definition which beth quoted I now am not certain that its not more subtle than that.
As you say it affects all types ofpeople which is why i think it is related to expectation of the environment. However when it comes to famous rock stars etc I think there is a better explanation arising from the high they get performing.
Depression is relative just as is happiness. If you were born in a concrete room with no doors and windows would you know you were a prisoner.
As you rightly say every one is different and reacts differently to problems and thoughts. We all have bad memories and bad thoughts from time to time but people react differently to them. now it seems that some people when a thought comes up from the unconcious mind allow their state (unconciously) to be affected in a negative way. this I think leads to depresion. However many people will have just as bad memory or thought come to the surface but their state alters to one which is not negative but allows you to work through or with the bad memory. Now some therapists are trying to teach people to alter their state to work with negative thoughts and so take away the depressed state.
Thought, State and actions are 3 sides of a triangle in our minds and if you act on any one side of the triange you affect the other two sides. The trick is with everyone being different (and reacting to different stimuli such as environment and family) to find a state that works with the problem.
Before you can fight a condition it is best to define it hence the definitions

jess8905

Also bear in mind we dont even discuss some of the better talking therapies here or on the other thread

ab can you go into some detail about this, (or are such things not allowed to be disscussed on here), I would be very interested to learn about other talking therapies

absolutebounder

jess8905 wrote: »

ab can you go into some detail about this, (or are such things not allowed to be disscussed on here), I would be very interested to learn about other talking therapies

we are not allowed to discuss meds in detail here.
The talking therapies I was referring to have mainly developed from the work of the late milton Erickson. Notably NLP and various forms of covert hypnosis and hypnoCBT. they work on the unconcious mind rather than the concious mind. The unconcious mind is much more powerful.
Milton Erickson was an american psychiatrist who spent much of his life paralysed by polio.
NLP is acredited to drs Bandler and Grindler but they never got it going properly until the got hold of Ericksons work.Google can fill in the bits that forum rules wont let me.

Space_donkey

absolutebounder wrote: »

we are not allowed to discuss meds in detail here.
The talking therapies I was referring to have mainly developed from the work of the late milton Erickson. Notably NLP and various forms of covert hypnosis and hypnoCBT. they work on the unconcious mind rather than the concious mind. The unconcious mind is much more powerful.
Milton Erickson was an american psychiatrist who spent much of his life paralysed by polio.
NLP is acredited to drs Bandler and Grindler but they never got it going properly until the got hold of Ericksons work.Google can fill in the bits that forum rules wont let me.

I loved the stuff you posted about NLPs ways of challenging thought and I use that meta model a lot and I have to say it really has made a difference to the way I see things. I have tried learning NLP online but some is a bit hard going and uses language I am not sure I understand but I cant find that much of Ericksons work. I was hoping to find him on youtube. Can you recommend any books?

absolutebounder

Space_donkey wrote: »

I loved the stuff you posted about NLPs ways of challenging thought and I use that meta model a lot and I have to say it really has made a difference to the way I see things. I have tried learning NLP online but some is a bit hard going and uses language I am not sure I understand but I cant find that much of Ericksons work. I was hoping to find him on youtube. Can you recommend any books?

There were som issues about Milton and copyright on you tube. Actual videos of him in action were taken off which really is a great pity as he was way in front of modern medicine.
This is what I meant by fighting with everything you have got. I wonder how many people suffering from depression scour the internet getting up to date with new treatments. Most of what I have seen people write about on MSE is several years behind the times.
It has been said that the average GP because of the many hours he spends seeing people is about 10 yrs out of date. The average consultant is about 5 yrs out of date because of his workload. Another thing is that much of the updating of health professionals is done by the various pharma reps and of course this is where money biases the facts.
you have the time to be right up to date
I will look out books for you but one to be going on with is NLP for dummies which most bookshops will have.

Jo_R_2

I'm having a not-so-good day today. I'm still working with the positive thinking so trying to bring things round.

For example. I have to ring my landlord about extending the end of the tenancy by a couple of days. Now I am terrible at phoning people. I hate it with a passion, and phoning my landlord for some reason makes me soo anxious, I haven't worked out why that is in particular as he's always been nothing but pleasant and helpful.

I always go through the same process when I have to make a phone call like this. I sit and think it through, feel my anxiety and tell myself, okay so I feel anxious and I might not want to make that call right now, but I have to do it, so I can put it off for an hour, say, but then I absolutely have to do it. So I usually spend that hour with the adrenaline running through my veins, feeling so nervous, the hour passes, I put it off some more, then eventually I tell myself, right, do it now, don't think about it just do it. Then I do, and it's of course fine, but I have to go through that process every time

So I'm currently somewhere in the hour phase LOL and I feel terrible!

absolutebounder

Jo_R wrote: »

I'm having a not-so-good day today. I'm still working with the positive thinking so trying to bring things round.

For example. I have to ring my landlord about extending the end of the tenancy by a couple of days. Now I am terrible at phoning people. I hate it with a passion, and phoning my landlord for some reason makes me soo anxious, I haven't worked out why that is in particular as he's always been nothing but pleasant and helpful.

I always go through the same process when I have to make a phone call like this. I sit and think it through, feel my anxiety and tell myself, okay so I feel anxious and I might not want to make that call right now, but I have to do it, so I can put it off for an hour, say, but then I absolutely have to do it. So I usually spend that hour with the adrenaline running through my veins, feeling so nervous, the hour passes, I put it off some more, then eventually I tell myself, right, do it now, don't think about it just do it. Then I do, and it's of course fine, but I have to go through that process every time

So I'm currently somewhere in the hour phase LOL and I feel terrible!

Hi Jo
How he reacts probably depends onwhether he has found a new tenant or not.
Assuming he hasnt then I would phone him and say you have some good news and that is that you want to stay a few days and so he will be without rent for a shoter time. These things you must show him what the benefits are.
There is a problem if he has someone lined up for the tenancy say the day after you leave but this doesnt happen that often. In which case I would say that unfortunately you wont be able to move out until xyz because of a bereavement in the family or some such excuse.
Did you offer to move voluntarily or is he evicting you?

beachbeth

Jo_R wrote: »

Now I am terrible at phoning people. I hate it with a passion, and phoning my landlord for some reason makes me soo anxious, I haven't worked out why that is in particular as he's always been nothing but pleasant and helpful.

I know exactly how you feel. I absolutely hate phoning people and will put it off forever. I get anxious about it too, as well as receiving calls.

absolutebounder

Jo_R wrote: »

So I'm currently somewhere in the hour phase LOL and I feel terrible!

Hour has long since gone how did phone call go.

Beachbeth
I know exactly how you feel. I absolutely hate phoning people and will put it off forever. I get anxious about it too, as well as receiving calls.

Why? the phone will never bite your ear