A question about this board, and the BG's.

Steph998

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

You could hypothesize that dog breeding is growing in popularity as some people see it as a way to make a quick buck from resources they already have.

This is the crux perhaps....that a lot of people who do not understand the 'reasons' many people breed, do see it as a way to make money. Of course I agree there are many dodgy breeders out there, and I hope there is some way found to better regulate the practice, to weed out those who are purely in it for the money. I personally know no breeders who do it for the money. I find it abhorrent , as do most responsible breeders. Making money is the last thing on my mind - and actually, with smaller breeds and litters, by the time you have paid the stud fee, all the vets bills, worming, feeding, keeping the pups till 16 weeks as recommended by the breed notes...you can actually end up out of pocket.

Steph998

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

How does that make the situation worse? (I presume you are talking about the unwanted dog problem?)

No, I was actually referring to the response I felt I got from my OP on the MateTel. Being tarred with a brush, because I mentioned I was thinking of breeding. Instant hackles up.... I could almost hear the hissing.

Errata

What makes a Breeder? Is it someone who breeds several litters of a pedigree breed each year from an array of mums and dads ? Or can anyone who breeds a litter from their pedigree family pet once or maybe twice during its lifetime call themselves a Breeder?

Declaring an interest: I've bred three litters from a prize winning b'tch and some of the pups also collected a few rosettes between them. I wouln't have called myself a Breeder - nor did I.

What do other people think ?

lostinrates

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

The two statements, ie. that some responsible breeders have suspended breeding for the time being, and that The breeding of dogs is growing in popularity are not mutually exclusive though are they, sadly?

You could hypothesize that dog breeding is growing in popularity as some people see it as a way to make a quick buck from resources they already have.

I'm quoting FC not OP so as to avoid offence to OP, but I'm presuming, I am being accused of lying about good breeders/judges I know?

FWIW I'm not going to start naming people on the internet, nor indeed in normal conversation would I detail information about my knowledge of other people's breeding programmes , and I don't really expect anyone to take my word for it..we could all be anyone, so all I can do is repeat that I am not against breeding, I have pedigree dogs which I show and my mother was a breeder. My dog was sold to me with potential for breeding. These two breeds are what I consider 'my breeds' and our dogs are considered amoung the foundation lines in their breed. I'm quite open to being challenged, and find it quite frustrating hat in this medium the validity of my claims can not really be asserted. But that IS the nature of the medium and my claiming what I claim is no more, and no less than what anyone else claims: its often just a collection of unbacked anecdotal evidence.

I am PRO good breeding of pedigree dogs and yet am sympathetic to the arguments of the current time. I'm not in the least 'put out' but if I have correctly gathered I am being accused of lying then the thread has a certain irony.

lostinrates

Errata wrote: »

What makes a Breeder? Is it someone who breeds several litters of a pedigree breed each year from an array of mums and dads ? Or can anyone who breeds a litter from their pedigree family pet once or maybe twice during its lifetime call themselves a Breeder?

Declaring an interest: I've bred three litters from a prize winning b'tch and some of the pups also collected a few rosettes between them. I wouln't have called myself a Breeder - nor did I.

What do other people think ?

I tend to think of breeders as those who are accredited. I think there is a place for non accredited breeders breeding, for exampl if your girl is successful, correct and hgealthy then I personally would consider her a valuable addition to the genepool but would hope that you had a good experienced 'breeder' for advice in whelping, and possibly with line knowledge.

Persoanally, I wish we were all licenced, even pet owners, with a 'higher licence' for breeding animals, whther accredited breeders or working breeders or pet breeders, or even accidental didn't mean to be a breeder-breeders

Steph998

lostinrates wrote: »

I'm quoting FC not OP so as to avoid offence to OP, but I'm presuming, I am being accused of lying about good breeders/judges I know?

The OP has not got a scooby what you are talking about here. Accusing you of lying? About what?

As far as I am concerned, any posts I have made have never referred to you.

Frugalista

Gosh! Things have certainly heated up! :rolleyes: . Some valid points raised, however this bit interested me....

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

..they are intrinsically part of the problem, like it or not.

I think fc you also have to accept a modicum of responsibility here as you (and your ilk) keep insisting over and over on how much money is to be made from breeding. This is also a big part of the problem, like it or not! We all know how impressionable some people can be and comments like "making a fast buck" could be enough to persuade some that "Hey! maybe its not a bad idea." Tell them often enough and it may just tip the balance.

Time and time again reputable and responsible breeders (and anyone who has close links with them) have come on here and said there is very little money to be made if breeding is done properly - and still you keep insisting that this is not so. Do you actually have first hand experience of this?

Can I ask how many litters you have bred (responsibly, of course) and how much it cost you to rear them (with all the associated costs)? And, of course, how much you made?

Can you point me to the threads where responsible breeders have sneered at anyone for getting a rescue; or where responsible breeders have implied you are somehow morally delinquent for wanting a mongrel rather than a pedigree; or where responsible breeders have actively encouraged someone to breed from the family pet? etc, etc....

I have said on more than one post that, as animal lovers, we should all stick together. Whichever side of the fence you are on - be it pedigree or mongrel, breeder or rescue - we can all make valid contributions to this Pets Forum. Many of us here (yourself included, obviously) have many years of valuable, professional experience in a variety of fields - can we not stop the finger pointing and pull together to make this forum a valuable resource for anyone who "dares" to post on here wanting help and advice?

Can we??

Errata

lostinrates wrote: »

I tend to think of breeders as those who are accredited. I think there is a place for non accredited breeders breeding, for exampl if your girl is successful, correct and hgealthy then I personally would consider her a valuable addition to the genepool but would hope that you had a good experienced 'breeder' for advice in whelping, and possibly with line knowledge.

Didn't need help - not after delivering lambs season after season and helping to heave out calves, season after season, and belonging to a family with sideboards full of silverware and rosettes for the livestock.

Persoanally, I wish we were all licenced, even pet owners, with a 'higher licence' for breeding animals, whther accredited breeders or working breeders or pet breeders, or even accidental didn't mean to be a breeder-breeders

There are currently 60 odd dogs in my local shelter which takes dogs from three large local authorities. This week they are staffs crossed with GOK's, border collies crossed with GOK's, alsations crossed with GPK's, indeterminate terrier types and one pedigree - a boxer with no chip. It's the people who are doing this kind of breeding that something needs to be done about.

lostinrates

Errata wrote: »

There are currently 60 odd dogs in my local shelter which takes dogs from three large local authorities. This week they are staffs crossed with GOK's, border collies crossed with GOK's, alsations crossed with GPK's, indeterminate terrier types and one pedigree - a boxer with no chip. It's the people who are doing this kind of breeding that something needs to be done about.

TBF most breeds have a breed rescue as well. My parents always had an open door return policy, never used!, but also took dogs from the breed rescue. And I think, as pedigree dog lovers we DO have to take responsibility for poor pedigree breeding. Lots and lots of breeders do, sadly some really don't. I think as pedegree dog owners and as ''people connected with breeding'' or breeders we have to start having these conversations more, and in the open more. Otherwise, frankly, we're going to be in trouble. And then what good our carefully begot dogs. Out of this little piece of ''upset'' perhaps we can be pleased its allowed an airing of a responsible viewpoint of pedigree breeding?

LOL, with whelping, thats great you have experience, but a large percentage of ''pet owner's'' who have had litters don't . IME breeders are happy to help. My issue with my girl of a new breed is I'm not sure I have the time to devote the hours and hours and hours of keeping up to date with lines in a breed with large numbers. Unless I can I won't ever have a litter from her, not even if she won Crufts!

foreign_correspondent

I think fc you also have to accept a modicum of responsibility here as you (and your ilk) keep insisting over and over on how much money is to be made from breeding. This is also a big part of the problem, like it or not! We all know how impressionable some people can be and comments like "making a fast buck" could be enough to persuade some that "Hey! maybe its not a bad idea." Tell them often enough and it may just tip the balance.

Frugalista, you are very keen to highlight inaccuracy and assumption, so please do read what I said, ie. that people probably see breeding as a way of making a fast buck, I made no comment on whether I thought that was an accurate perception.

You could hypothesize that dog breeding is growing in popularity as some people see it as a way to make a quick buck from resources they already have.

I imagine reading the classified ads, which list pups for several hundred quid each have a far greater impact on the perceptions of the profits of breeding than anything I do (or don't) say!

Me and my ilk! lol:rotfl: I didn't know I had an ilk!!