A question about this board, and the BG's.

moggylover

lostinrates wrote: »

TBF most breeds have a breed rescue as well. My parents always had an open door return policy, never used!, but also took dogs from the breed rescue. And I think, as pedigree dog lovers we DO have to take responsibility for poor pedigree breeding. Lots and lots of breeders do, sadly some really don't. I think as pedegree dog owners and as ''people connected with breeding'' or breeders we have to start having these conversations more, and in the open more. Otherwise, frankly, we're going to be in trouble. And then what good our carefully begot dogs. Out of this little piece of ''upset'' perhaps we can be pleased its allowed an airing of a responsible viewpoint of pedigree breeding?

LOL, with whelping, thats great you have experience, but a large percentage of ''pet owner's'' who have had litters don't . IME breeders are happy to help. My issue with my girl of a new breed is I'm not sure I have the time to devote the hours and hours and hours of keeping up to date with lines in a breed with large numbers. Unless I can I won't ever have a litter from her, not even if she won Crufts!

:T :T :T :T :T

Frugalista

moggylover wrote: »

Let me explain to you that as far as I can see it would be impossible for anyone in rescue to think kindly of breeders, (Hmm! A close friend of mine is one of the Directors (16 years) of WSPA - World Society for the Protection of Animals. His region covers 15 different countries that have serious animal welfare issues. He is also a reputable, responsible breeder of pedigree dogs and a Championship show judge :rolleyes:. You will also find that the majority of pedigree breed rescues are run by breeders and enthusiasts of that given breed) no matter how responsible the breeder thinks they are, because we see the worst results of their actions, and we clean up the mess. (And I'm sure you will get your rewards in Heaven:A. The gentleman mentioned above (as with many of us who have been active in rescue) is very modest about his work and doesn't need to bray about it - just quietly gets on and does it for the animals).

Once again, you are willing to totally ignore the fact that FC has posted legitimate information (just as FC has totally ignored the enquiry about her first hand experience in breeding, rearing and subsequent moneymaking) that would, imo, make any true animal lover who is considering breeding pedigree dogs sit up and take notice if they were truly concerned with the animals: but it is once again being ignored or met with the "that doesn't apply to me" attitude;) .

Someone asks (pro-breeding) that we own our "abuse" of breeders:(which post was that?) well, I don't think I have ever abused one at all, but perhaps we could ask the breeders to also "own" their own part in the problem of too many dogs not getting the homes they deserve. (Most reputable, responsible breeders have homes waiting and will take back their own dogs if needed)Once that part has been addressed then I think those dogs that did end up in rescue would be very much smaller numbers and from situations that come from genuinely unforseen circumstances and not just too much expendable income and a "whim" assisted by a never ending stream of "pedigree" (and some of the pedigrees I have read have been enough to curl ones hair) dogs in the market and an irresponsible attitude to pet ownership. Totally agree.

I say this with the mixed feeling that their are breeds of dog which I would hate to see lost (although many of the breed standards need close inspection to make sure that the standards do no further damage to the overall health of the dogs involved, and something needs to be done about the levels of close inbreeding that is prevalent (do you have properly researched and documented evidence of this?)) and would not wish to see breeding gone forever. Furthermore, I should be equally sad to see the total demise of the Heinz 57 because they are often the very best natured and most loyal and loving of pets and still definitely have a place in the World imo:o

However, for every one responsible breeder there are probably 10 irresponsible ones (Again, do you have evidence to back up this claim - I'm not saying I disagree with you - would just like to see the proof ) and I think the really responsible ones would be those who would be equally up in arms at the irresponsible ones and wanting to look for answers to this along with the rescuers. (I think that they already are) I also think they would have a lot more tolerance and understanding of our worries and concerns for the welfare of the animals;) (I find that incredibly self rightious of you - there are thousands of responsible breeders around the world who spend an enormous amount of money on testing for hereditary diseases and research, mostly on a voluntary basis. Many breed clubs reguarly hold fund raising events to pay for research into eye diseases, epilepsy, etc. Many breed clubs also ask for donations toward rescue on their membership forms and show entry forms, etc, etc. There is more involved in the welfare of animals than just rehousing unwanted pets!) The irresponsible ones will continue to not give a shoite and imo are the ones who would be upset by the suggestion that breeding in the current economic climate is irresponsible:D Absolutely agree - there needs to be tighter controls.

There are good and bad breeders - just as there are good and bad parents - and all the shades of grey inbetween. Too many people on here seem to want to adopt an "us against them" kind of attitude instead of pooling our resources.

Errata

Surely the problem of too many pedigree dogs with too many health problems can be solved by the Kennel Club refusing to register more than a certain number of pups each year which have no inherited health problems current or future?

Frugalista

I think that this is a rather simplistic view. All species of animal have some kind of inherited health problem - I believe that Man has more than any other species. Registered pedigree dogs are only a small part of the overall problem. There are many pedigree dog owners who will mate their family pet to another of the same breed and never bother to register them or (more importantly) do any health checks. These pups are still pedigree.

Most of the responsible, reputable breeders that I know actually put restrictions on their pups to prevent them from registering any offspring until either certain criteria have been met or (if sold purely as pet quality) not at all. Unfortunately, you cannot physically prevent anyone from breeding their animal if they are hell-bent on doing so - and these are exactly the sort of people who will come on forums like these complaining that they paid £x amount and the "wicked breeder" won't let them do what they want to with their own dog :rolleyes:. Look at that thread that was recently on here about a puppy with the microchip - the "breeder" said that the microchip was to be kept in her name so if the dog was ever lost it would be returned to her. There were loads of people on here slating the said "breeder"s action - until it turned out the pup was actually a rescue - then suddenly it was seen as a responsible act on the rescues part :rolleyes:. I fail to see why one was right and one was wrong. Some people refuse to recognise that there are breeders who try to do what is right for their pups, and prefer to tar everyone with the same brush.

You also, with the best will in the world, cannot always predict what health problems may manifest themselves later in an animals life anymore than you can with peoples health. You can only make use of the health tests that are currently available - screen your own animals, and then breed them to other healthy stock. What more can breeders do?

PS I know people will come on here saying breed less - but I think that we have already established that responsible breeders are curtailing their breeding due to the current economic crisis. I'll take it that that point has been covered.

Frugalista

Before anyone says the above post has been edited - I added the PS - OK?

foreign_correspondent

Once again, you are willing to totally ignore the fact that FC has posted legitimate information (just as FC has totally ignored the enquiry about her first hand experience in breeding, rearing and subsequent moneymaking)

oh, sorry, I had assumed that was a rhetorical question!! No, I have never bred dogs, why do you ask?