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Camp_Freddy

hayley11 wrote: »

But I think MSE including it in the email was a good thing. Because for however many bad members that join, you will get some really decent ones. And it's good to get new members, it would go stale really quickly if it was just the same people reviewing all the time.

Also some people that are bad might not even realise how bad they are, so hopefully with time and support they will get better.

And the people that are just abusing it will get kicked off soon enough hopefully.

I think it's good for the site, not for the members. If these new members were reading around the site, you'd think read rates would rise and we'd all benefit. My own experience is that read rates aren't that much higher than before the MSE influxes whereas I'd like to think that they'd rise dramatically, even just for the short-term until things stabilised.

cheap_charlie

Camp_Freddy wrote: »

I think it's good for the site, not for the members. If these new members were reading around the site, you'd think read rates would rise and we'd all benefit. My own experience is that read rates aren't that much higher than before the MSE influxes whereas I'd like to think that they'd rise dramatically, even just for the short-term until things stabilised.

I wish this would be the case, but it never is.

It seems that MSE likes to promote the "post a review of 150 words and earn 50p" aspect of dooyoo, without actually telling anyone about the community aspect.

Some people would no doubt describe me as an idiot for spending a lot of time reading reviews from new members, knowing full well that the chances of getting a return rate were around 5% at best, and there have been plenty of established members who quite simply have completely ignored new members' reviews for this reason.

However I have enough time on my hands to read reviews and as I have already said, have taken pleasure in seeing some new members take the time to look about the site and take constructive criticism on board, and be rewarded with crowns for their efforts.

I post this sincerely - when I first joined I was completely unaware of the community aspect and it took me a while to get the idea. I took the opportunity to ensure my early reviews were all of a relatively good standard before requesting my first cheque - don't get me wrong, they are pretty poor in comparison to what I post now, and most were rated low (deservedly so) but I edited them to ensure I met the criteria for payment.

I believe it is only from spending some time reading reviews - particularly crowned ones - that you can get the idea of what kind of level of writing dooyoo would like from you.

bluffer

I have been a member of ciao and dooyoo ( under a different name to here ) almost since they started and learned early on that the name of the game to get earnings was to be a nice reviewer and get reciprocal ratings.

i was always an honest reviewer and a couple of times was involved in a unpleasant "review war" with people who cultivated friends but their reviews were not of a very high standard. they then got a few of their friends to give me low ratings just because i gave them low ratings. fortunately they made the mistake of bragging about it in personal messages to me so iwas able to prove the case to the site admin. mainly because of that, my writing to review ratio is about 15 to 1. i may loose points because of it but i feel a much healthier person beecause of it.

urban469

Camp_Freddy wrote: »

Well, you can certainly string a sentence together, but your childish attitude and logic skills are, in my opinion, lacking. If that carries over to your reviews, then it's entirely possible Dooyoo have a legitimate claim that your work is not up to scratch.

There was once a high profile member on Dooyoo who claimed to be a professional writer but who couldn't write a consumer review to save her life, in my opinion, and racked up huge read rates because she 'gamed' the site and its members. Just because you write for a living (assuming that's true) doesn't mean you are automatically good at wnything related to the written word... writing novels or short stories or marketing blurb or any number of other things that can be described as "writing". It's entirely possible that someone who has trouble with written English is actually very good at providing the opinion and feedback that a consumer wants.

Thanks for your opinion. I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being childish. And I can't remember calling myself a "writer". I'm a journalist. And as for being "what a consumer wants", I suggest you read my earlier posts, because I'm not going to repeat myself to defend myself against your little outburst.

Camp_Freddy

urban469 wrote: »

Thanks for your opinion. I'm not sure why you're accusing me of being childish. And I can't remember calling myself a "writer". I'm a journalist. And as for being "what a consumer wants", I suggest you read my earlier posts, because I'm not going to repeat myself to defend myself against your little outburst.

I did read your posts, very carefully. And your above comment still fits the bill. Throwing your toys out of the pram because of one little bit of criticism from me. Tsk. I called you childish because of what you've posted here. You've thrown a huff because Dooyoo locked your account because they think that some of your work is sub-standard and aren't going to let you cash out. Suck it up and improve the ones they've mentioned, then you'll get your cash. It's not rocket science.

But, no. You "threaten" them with copyright law when, in reality, they're honour bound to delete your entire account (work and all) as soon as you indicate you want to close your account because of the UK data protection act.

You claim that your work couldn't possibly be sub-standard because you are a "professional journalist" i.e. you are a professional writer. As I've already mentioned, just because you can string some words together, it doesn't automatically follow that you can write a good review.

Also, you're never the best judge of your own work, so you can't really say whether your review was useful or not. All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less.

urban469

Camp_Freddy wrote: »

I did read your posts, very carefully. And your above comment still fits the bill. Throwing your toys out of the pram because of one little bit of criticism from me. Tsk. I called you childish because of what you've posted here. You've thrown a huff because Dooyoo locked your account because they think that some of your work is sub-standard and aren't going to let you cash out. Suck it up and improve the ones they've mentioned, then you'll get your cash. It's not rocket science.

But, no. You "threaten" them with copyright law when, in reality, they're honour bound to delete your entire account (work and all) as soon as you indicate you want to close your account because of the UK data protection act.

You claim that your work couldn't possibly be sub-standard because you are a "professional journalist" i.e. you are a professional writer. As I've already mentioned, just because you can string some words together, it doesn't automatically follow that you can write a good review.

Also, you're never the best judge of your own work, so you can't really say whether your review was useful or not. All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less.

"All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less" - well, actually, me plus a few hundred other dooyoo members!!

You clearly didn't read my posts because:

- you claimed I said I was a "writer" (and therefore could be a novelist) rather than a journalist,
- I never mentioned the data protection act!! i referred to their own terms and conditions,
- I told you almost all of my reviews were "very useful" or "useful" (including ratings from guides), not a single "not useful" - so the dooyoo community which has actually read my reviews would disagree with your interesting claim that my reviews might not have been any good.

If dooyoo had given me the opportunity to change any reviews they didn't like, I would have been fine with that. But they closed the entire account, and rejected my pleas to let me back in. I NEVER asked them to delete my account - quite the opposite. So, yes, I am going to tell them to remove all of my reviews if they think they are "substandard" - they can't have it both ways!

It would have been more reasonable (as I have already said, but you seem to have missed this point as well) for them to communicate with me - tell me they didn't like what I was doing, for whatever reason. I would have changed it, and everyone would have been happy.

There is a reason they are kicking me out - and I doubt it is because of substandard reviews. I think it is because I am working too fast for them. If it genuinely was because it was substandard, they would've taken other action.

Camp_Freddy

urban469 wrote: »

"All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less" - well, actually, me plus a few hundred other dooyoo members!!

You clearly didn't read my posts because:

- you claimed I said I was a "writer" (and therefore could be a novelist) rather than a journalist,
- I never mentioned the data protection act!! i referred to their own terms and conditions,
- I told you almost all of my reviews were "very useful" or "useful" (including ratings from guides), not a single "not useful" - so the dooyoo community which has actually read my reviews would disagree with your interesting claim that my reviews might not have been any good.

If dooyoo had given me the opportunity to change any reviews they didn't like, I would have been fine with that. But they closed the entire account, and rejected my pleas to let me back in. I NEVER asked them to delete my account - quite the opposite. So, yes, I am going to tell them to remove all of my reviews if they think they are "substandard" - they can't have it both ways!

It would have been more reasonable (as I have already said, but you seem to have missed this point as well) for them to communicate with me - tell me they didn't like what I was doing, for whatever reason. I would have changed it, and everyone would have been happy.

There is a reason they are kicking me out - and I doubt it is because of substandard reviews. I think it is because I am working too fast for them. If it genuinely was because it was substandard, they would've taken other action.

Don't be disingenuous. You claimed, as a "professional journalist", that you could write good reviews.

urban469 wrote: »

Like I said, I am a professional journalist, and I know how to write a good review and stay within house style!

You use words for a living. That makes you a writer in my book, even if you are only a journalist (again, based on your above, quoted, claim). My argument is that, simply because you use words for living, doesn't automatically make you (or anyone else) a good reviewer. Once again, I will call your debate and logic skills into question because of what you say above. Your use of the word "clearly" to try and re-enforce a laboured point shows a core flaw in your debating ability. In addition, your sole counter-argument is that you don't believe I read your posts simply because I don't address a minute fact or, IMO, unimportant statement.

Secondly, no, you didn't mention the data protection act, I did. You mentioned that you'd threaten Dooyoo with your own copyright to get your work removed from Dooyoo when that, like your other reactions towards Dooyoo and criticism you received on this thread, has been over-reaction. I mentioned the DPA as one reason your copyright threat was unecessary. As soon as you ask for your work to be removed, Dooyoo are legally obliged to do it because of the DPA.

Thirdly, you were told earlier in this thread about the massive over-rating that takes place on Dooyoo, so quoting your rates means absolutely nothing to me. The rating system is flawed on Dooyoo. It always has been. Anyway, that portion of my post was questioning YOUR ability to judge the quality of YOUR reviews, not questioning the quality of your reviews in particular.

Dooyoo is not a perfect site, but it seems to me, from the tone and content of your posts on this thread, that you don't understand the site or the review writing concept. Partly that's because you're only new to it, but there are other reasons, too.

If Dooyoo closed your account completely, then there are other issues at stake. Plenty of members before you have submitted substandard work and had their reviews unlocked after they'd improved them and there are plenty of members out there that post a lot more reviews than you do. In fact, closing an account rather than locking a few reviews is only really done when there's abuse going on.

urban469

Camp_Freddy wrote: »

Don't be disingenuous. You claimed, as a "professional journalist", that you could write good reviews.



You use words for a living. That makes you a writer in my book, even if you are only a journalist (again, based on your above, quoted, claim). My argument is that, simply because you use words for living, doesn't automatically make you (or anyone else) a good reviewer. Once again, I will call your debate and logic skills into question because of what you say above. Your use of the word "clearly" to try and re-enforce a laboured point shows a core flaw in your debating ability. In addition, your sole counter-argument is that you don't believe I read your posts simply because I don't address a minute fact or, IMO, unimportant statement.

Secondly, no, you didn't mention the data protection act, I did. You mentioned that you'd threaten Dooyoo with your own copyright to get your work removed from Dooyoo when that, like your other reactions towards Dooyoo and criticism you received on this thread, has been over-reaction. I mentioned the DPA as one reason your copyright threat was unecessary. As soon as you ask for your work to be removed, Dooyoo are legally obliged to do it because of the DPA.

Thirdly, you were told earlier in this thread about the massive over-rating that takes place on Dooyoo, so quoting your rates means absolutely nothing to me. The rating system is flawed on Dooyoo. It always has been. Anyway, that portion of my post was questioning YOUR ability to judge the quality of YOUR reviews, not questioning the quality of your reviews in particular.

Dooyoo is not a perfect site, but it seems to me, from the tone and content of your posts on this thread, that you don't understand the site or the review writing concept. Partly that's because you're only new to it, but there are other reasons, too.

If Dooyoo closed your account completely, then there are other issues at stake. Plenty of members before you have submitted substandard work and had their reviews unlocked after they'd improved them and there are plenty of members out there that post a lot more reviews than you do. In fact, closing an account rather than locking a few reviews is only really done when there's abuse going on.

No, you didn't read my previous posts for the reasons I listed above, not a "minute fact". Secondly, you insist on talking about the DPA which has no relevance here whatsoever - but you are wrong. They would not have to remove my work IF their T&Cs stated that THEY retain copyright over any reviews posted. They would only have to remove my personal details.

Third, the argument over journalism was because you threw in the red herring of me possibly being a novelist, or fiction writer.

Fourth, you are contradicting yourself when you say that "that portion of my post was questioning YOUR ability to judge the quality of YOUR reviews, not questioning the quality of your reviews in particular" - have a read back of your own post where it says "All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less." That seems to be quite a sweeping statement.

Also, even if the rating system is exaggerated, there were no indicators from the dooyoo community or the guides to hint that they found the reviews: less than useful or a breach of the system.

Like I said, dooyoo took no remedial action - no temporary locking of the account, or communication with me. They closed the account and gave me no chance to rectify the situation. But I have said this quite a few times now, and you seem not to be listening. So maybe it's best if I only reply to people who care to move this conversation forward rather than labouring the same tired (and flawed) points.

barongreenback

If dooyoo did permanently lock your account with no right of reply then I would find that disturbing. Am I right in thinking that their reasons for doing so as explained to you was that your reviews were sub-standard? The problem we have as it stands is that we now only have your word for it. Your reviews have been taken down and we have no way of knowing whether they were of an acceptable standard or not. Cutting and pasting something from word is not evidence as it could be written after the fact. I am not saying I believe you or not...have no idea. What I will say that you seem to be only one of a couple of members who have accused dooyoo of doing this.

If you look in this thread and elsewhere you will note several people who have had their accounts locked have approached dooyoo and tried to make amends. I have rarely seen dooyoo being anything but strict and fair in this regard.

Moving on to MSE, I do believe that the current influx and previous ones is largely negative for the site. For every ten members who contribute on here and try and improve (for which I applaud you) the site, there must be hundreds who are simply after cashing out as frequently as possible with minimum effort. It is, in my mind MSE who have created this problem and made dooyoo a less pleasant place to be. For every cheap_charlie, fiver etc there are so many other members who simply come to dooyoo to fleece it for all its worth.

Camp_Freddy

urban469 wrote: »

No, you didn't read my previous posts for the reasons I listed above, not a "minute fact". Secondly, you insist on talking about the DPA which has no relevance here whatsoever - but you are wrong. They would not have to remove my work IF their T&Cs stated that THEY retain copyright over any reviews posted. They would only have to remove my personal details.

Third, the argument over journalism was because you threw in the red herring of me possibly being a novelist, or fiction writer.

No, I mentioned things as part of the discussion about Dooyoo and your blocked account. You are the one focussing on them, not me. I do raise these things again because, no matter how I break them down (your claim about your own skill as a reviewer because you are a journalist or my mention of the DPA as an example of you over-racting as only two examples), you continue to interpret them your way and not in the manner I originally introduced them. You might well be a journalist, but your debating skills are weak and your logical conclusions are poor. If you did carry this mentality to Dooyoo, then it's no wonder they locked you out, to be perfectly honest. You're focussing on minor points stated in posts and ignoring or not seeing the bigger picture because you're nitpicking.

urban469 wrote: »

Fourth, you are contradicting yourself when you say that "that portion of my post was questioning YOUR ability to judge the quality of YOUR reviews, not questioning the quality of your reviews in particular" - have a read back of your own post where it says "All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less." That seems to be quite a sweeping statement.

No, I am not. The entire quote, not just the bit you insist on quoting, reads:

Camp_Freddy wrote: »

Also, you're never the best judge of your own work, so you can't really say whether your review was useful or not. All you can claim is that YOU would have found your review helpful, nothing more, nothing less.

In the context of the entire quote, you can't tell what's your best work and what isn't, if you're talking about Usefulness as a measure. Sure, there will be reviews that you're proud of, but many times, these are not the ones that are Crowned (by Dooyoo, not the community). Usefulness is a result of people's experiences, desires, needs and a whole load of other factors that you simply can't account for. Other people tell you how useful your reviews are, not you.

urban469 wrote: »

Like I said, dooyoo took no remedial action - no temporary locking of the account, or communication with me. They closed the account and gave me no chance to rectify the situation. But I have said this quite a few times now, and you seem not to be listening. So maybe it's best if I only reply to people who care to move this conversation forward rather than labouring the same tired (and flawed) points.

I'm not defending Dooyoo, so whether they communicated with you or how they dealt with you is not relevant to me. However, this does not seem to be how Dooyoo have acted in the past under similar circumstances. Your account was locked. From my experience, that only happens to abusers. If your work was sub-standard, they would have locked the individual reviews leaving you to either submit further, valid, reviews or improve the locked ones. Reading through your posts on this thread, I'm leaning towards Dooyoo being in the right and you being the one in the wrong. You've shown that you've over-reacted to minor things, you can't take criticism and your debating/analytical skills are poor. If your communication with Dooyoo is done in the same tones as every single one of your posts here, then I'm not surprised Dooyoo don't want you around the site when they have hundreds or thousands of other MSE members to soak up their time, thanks to Martin's inaccurate email.