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Employment Tribunal Help
jobbingmusician
Posts: 20,347 Forumite
WHILE THIS THREAD IS VERY OUT OF DATE, IT STILL CONTAINS SOME USEFUL INFO. MORE TO THE POINT, I HAVE DISCOVERED A USEFUL AND UP TO DATE LINK.
IF YOU ARE THINKING OF RAISING AN ET - LOOK HERE FOR BASIC ADVICE.
https://www.workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/writing-the-tribunal-claim-et1/
Following Mosdee’s plea for help, I thought it would be sensible to have a thread about how to raise, and prepare for, an Employment Tribunal. I think this should be a sticky – but then again, I could be biased! I stress that I am NOT a lawyer – I am a senior manager who has appeared at tribunal on behalf of my employer, and I have also raised a tribunal against one employer, which I won. But I am sure I will have forgotten lots of things – please do post on this thread if you find anything I have forgotten, and I will try to ensure this first post is edited to include all the useful points we can remember between us!
Please treat this initial post as a first draft – someone had to raise the issue, and I am sure there will be lots of amendments necessary! Comments and corrections are welcome. I have posted an outline framework now, as this is a big project. If anyone wants to ‘adopt a section’ and write it up, they are welcome and I will incorporate points into this first post, with acknowledgments! Some things I simply don’t know, and there are some questions in the text. Those with patience will find them, and we can share knowledge and learn from each other.
When you read this post, bear in mind that all the things between square brackets [like this] need input from you, and should not simply be cut and pasted into whatever you are writing!
1. When should I consider raising an ET case?
You can take your employer to tribunal if you feel that they have treated you unfairly. The most common situations in which people take their employer to tribunal are
- unfair dismissal. (In order to consider this you will have to have been employed by your employer for a year or more).
- constructive dismissal (In order to consider this you will have to have been employed by your employer for a year or more).
- breach of contract
- unfair treatment on grounds of race, sex or age. It is also possible to be unfairly treated on one of these grounds as part of dismissal or breach of contract.
The most important thing to think about is that your employer does not have to be proved to be WRONG. The tribunal will be much more concerned with whether they have FOLLOWED THEIR OWN PROCEDURES and BEHAVED FAIRLY. For example, an innocent employee may be accused of theft and dismissed following an investigation. This would not constitute unfair dismissal if
- the employer had well documented procedures which did not discriminate against employees (even unintentionally) on the basis of race, sex or age
- the employer followed their own procedures
- at the end of the procedures, it was reasonable for the employer to conclude that the employee was guilty.
Before you raise a tribunal, consider what you are hoping to get out of it. If what you really want is a small amount of money and/or an apology, you should consider writing to your employer a letter in the following format
Dear Sir
On [date] the following happened [outline your case here]. I have been advised that this is a clear breach of [employment law/my contract/the race relations/sex discrimination/age discrimination act – these are examples, not an exhaustive list!] because [insert your reason here].
This has obviously been extremely distressing for me, but I am keen to be fair in this matter. If the company is prepared to [your request here, which might be as vague as ‘provide financial restitution and a good reference’] I will consider signing a compromise agreement.
I will not go into an explanation of compromise agreements here, but you can read more about them at http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1075081896
You should note that if you do accept a compromise agreement you will not be able to change your mind and raise an ET!
IF YOU DECIDE TO RAISE AN ET, YOU MUST SUBMIT IT TO THE COURT WITHIN 3 MONTHS OF THE BEHAVIOUR YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.
2. Should I raise an ET case?
If you are a member of a union, involve your union in your problems as early as possible. The union may well support your case and do much of the work for you. If your union will not support you, be clear about why they will not and consider whether it is worth continuing with what is a very stressful procedure.
It will NOT usually help you to join a Union once problems start. Most unions will not support you in issues which arose before you were a member. (Thanks to SomeBozo for this point.) This guide is generally written to help people who do not have Union support. However, Unions are far from perfect!
Having said that, the following points are still true at the time of writing
- ETs are generally there to support the employee. It is the employer’s responsibility to prove that they are good and fair employers. If there is a bias, it is definitely in favour of the employee.
- It does not cost anything to raise an ET
- If you represent yourself, it does not cost anything to have an ET heard
- It is extremely rare for the ET to award costs against the employee (although it is becoming slightly more common). The only exception to this is if they feel that the employee has brought an ET maliciously, or simply to make trouble for the employer.
- It does seem to me that unions are very wary of supporting their members. They can also be incredibly overworked (I am being charitable here!) and slow to respond to your needs. They will not support you at tribunal unless they (or their lawyers) believe that you have more than a 50% chance of winning. If your union refuses you support, have a long hard think about whether you should be bringing the case. Ask your friends and the CAB/ local advice centre whether they think you should continue. Ask your friends whether they think there is any risk that a lay person could consider that you are simply bringing a malicious case against your employer. (Remember that it is possible to have costs awarded against you, in this case).
- Unions may also want to make their own job as simple as possible, and they may insist you settle out of court for the first offer the employer makes. If you do not settle at this point, they are likely to withdraw their support. It is your decision whether to settle for this offer or continue to tribunal on your own. (Thanks to Horace for this point.)
- Tribunals tend to be slightly less demanding of small employers than they are of larger ones (Thanks to Milarky for this point.) However, recent legislation which requires all employers to have written disciplinary and grievance policies have strengthened the case for employees.
- Once you raise an ET, if you withdraw it you may theoretically be liable for your employer’s costs (in preparing for the ET). My union implied to me that these costs were more likely to be awarded if I withdrew before ET than at ET (where they are rarely awarded against the employee). Others may have other views on this – I’m not sure it’s true!
You can raise a case online, and find lots of details about ETs, at http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/FormsGuidance/formsGuidance.htm
3. How should I prepare for raising an ET?
DOCUMENT CAREFULLY what has gone wrong at work, and how you think your employer has behaved unfairly. Make a CHRONOLOGICAL LIST of what has happened. An example of this is shown below
3.11.09 Circular to all staff about taking supplies without permission
3.1.09 Asked manager if it was OK to take supplies home overnight
3.2. 09 Received memo suspending me from work on suspicion of theft.
4.2.09 Phone call from manager accusing me of theft and saying HR would be in touch
5.2.09 Letter from HR confirming my suspension and saying they would be conducting an investigation.
9.3.09 Letter from HR inviting me to disciplinary interview on 23.3.09
23.3.09 Disciplinary
24.3.09 Received letter sacking me.
BE CLEAR WHAT THE EMPLOYER IS ASSERTING IS WRONG, AND HOW THIS CONTRAVENE’S THE EMPLOYER’S POLICIES
In the (imaginary) example above, the employee is asserting that he asked his manager’s permission for an act he was later sacked for. As soon as he is suspended, he should ask for a copy of the disciplinary and grievance policies. EMPLOYERS HAVE TO HAVE THESE! If your employer does not, this is good news for you! See http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-46.php3?id_article=1752 for details of what your employer is required to do.
RAISE A GRIEVANCE if you feel things are going pear shaped and it is someone else’s fault.
THIS IS IMPORTANT – the ET will ask whether you raised a grievance. In the (imaginary) example above, the employee is asserting that he asked his manager’s permission for an act he was later sacked for. When the employee received the letter on 5.4.09 it should have been clear to him what the disciplinary was about. At this point it should be clear to the employee that he is at risk of being disciplined for something his manager gave him permission to do. He should immediately raise a grievance against his manager, explaining this situation (and any other times he can think of where his manager has done similar things) and send this to HR.
If it is possible, go through the whole grievance procedure. This may not be possible if you are sacked, or if you are given very short notice of redundancy or termination, but in all other cases you should grind to the very end of the company’s grievance procedure, including raising appeals if necessary. In particular, DO NOT RESIGN until you have exhausted the grievance procedure. (Thanks to SomeBozo for this point.)
4. How do I raise an ET case?
The forms are available at http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/FormsGuidance/formsGuidance.htm
You will complete a form called an ET1, and a copy of this will be sent to the employer. The employer will respond on an ET3 form, and the tribunal will then decide whether to accept your claim. Milarky has pointed out that the response from the employer has to be within 3 weeks of receipt of the ET1 – my experience indicates that this time limit is quite rigorously enforced by the tribunals nowadays.
Once your ET1 has been accepted, you can register at this website. http://www.employmenttribunalinfo.org/?gclid=CPXjw9PYvpgCFQtdQgodvVChaA As far as I can tell, this is a legitimate research site, who will pay you £25 for registering with them. They also send you a helpful leaflet on ETs. (I did register, and received my cheque).
OK, at this point I have run out of time for this morning. I’ll be back, as they say, to edit and expand this post. If anyone wants to add points in the meantime, reply to this post and I will incorporate things as necessary.
5. What happens next?
Now, I am going to need some help here, as I can’t actually remember! However, the important things are that at some point (and it’s likely to take a long time) the tribunal will tell you a date for your hearing or pre-hearing, and how long they think the case is likely to take. Alternatively they may ask you to send some further information. They may recommend that you and your employer use ACAS as a mediation service – if this is the case, I would recommend that you accept this offer. It would be difficult for an employer to argue that you are bringing a case against them maliciously if you have shown that you are willing to consider mediation!
Milarky has contributed the following point. Use of ACAS: In principle ACAS will make contact with the employer and sound them out about a compromise well before a Tribunal hearing is scheduled. In practice little energy is devoted to doing so by ACAS and they may (for example) speak to someone other than the named party.
Can other readers of this thread identify some other things I should be saying here?
The important thing which you should do whilst you are waiting for your tribunal date is to get your papers in order. You should now be assembling all your papers into a file, which will be called a BUNDLE. Before the ET, you and your employer will exchange bundles. This gives each side a pre-warning of the arguments the other side will be relying on in court, and there should be no surprises.
When I was an employer in tribunals, my solicitor advised me to prepare my bundles in a specific way. Sadly, I am now relying on memory, but I’m sure other MSErs will help if I have got anything wrong.
THE FORMAT OF YOUR BUNDLE
Page 1 – a page in the following format
Case number – xxxxx (the case number of your ET)
[Your name] versus [your employer’s name].
To be heard at [name of tribunal court, which they will give you]
On [date of hearing]
Page 2 – an index.
Page 3 – your statement. This is what you are going to say in court. You can just read it out. From what I can remember, I was advised to prepare this in a largish font (12) and to put a double space between each paragraph. EVERY PARAGRAPH SHOULD BE NUMBERED.
Page 4 – a chronology of what happened. Simply make a list of all the relevant things that happened and arrange them in date order. If a ‘thing’ relates to a memo or other document, list the number of the document beside it. Your chronology will therefore look something like this (using the example above):
3.11.09 Circular to all staff about taking supplies without permission (5)
3.1.09 Asked manager if it was OK to take supplies home overnight
3.2. 09 Received memo suspending me from work on suspicion of theft. (6)
3.2.09 Wrote to work raising grievance against manager (7)
4.2.09 Phone call from manager accusing me of theft and saying HR would be in touch (note of this call attached as 8)
5.2.09 Letter from HR confirming my suspension and saying they would be conducting an investigation. (9)
9.3.09 Letter from HR inviting me to disciplinary interview on 23.3.09 (10)
23.3.09 Disciplinary (minutes attached as 11)
24.3.09 Received letter sacking me. (12)
You can see from this that the remaining pages of your bundle will be the other papers relevant to your case. These may include all sorts of things – obviously memos and correspondence relating to your case, but you may also want to include memos to other people if you feel others have been treated differently, a copy of the company’s disciplinary and grievance policies or your letters requesting these if they have not been forthcoming, your contract of employment (you should normally be issued with one of these within 2 months of starting work, although it is not mandatory to have a written contract) and anything else you feel is relevant.
The tribunal is likely to ask you to send several copies of your bundle to them before the hearing, so try to ensure that it is on consistent A4 sheets which you can run through a photocopier efficiently when the time comes.
YOUR STATEMENT
Your statement is simply the story of what happened. It should start with a sentence in the following format.
I am [your name here] and I was (or have been, if you are still there) employed by [company name] from [date of starting].
Now tell the story, making sure that it is in chronological order as far as possible and includes reference to all the papers you are planning to include. In particular, make sure it includes the following.
Did you raise a grievance? What happened about that?
Did you have a disciplinary?
When you were called to disciplinary (assuming you had one), were you advised of your right to representation? Did you take a representative? (See the section on witnesses below)
Have you had the minutes of your disciplinary? Have you included them?
Did you appeal against your disciplinary? Is that paperwork included?
Have you included your contract?
Number each paragraph, and keep the paragraphs short. Do a double space after each paragraph. (You may be asked questions in court and want to support your facts with reference to your statement. The easier it is for the court to find things, the happier the court will be).
If you are thinking of getting legal advice at any stage, when you have prepared your statement is a good time to get it. Your case will be organised, and the statement should make it clear why you think you have been unfairly treated, illegally treated, and/or discriminated against on the basis of race, sex or age. Horace suggests that ‘One thing to do with solicitors is a) arrange to see them for a free half hour (take your documentation) then if you decide to employ them, then negotiate a fee.’
The idea of your statement, and of exchanging bundles, is that there should be no surprises on the day. The court should be clear before they see you what your story is and what your employer’s defence is.
Milarky points out that: Unlike normal proceedings, the employer (as defendant) gets to present their case first. This is because the 'reverse' presumption that the employer must prove they acted fairly rather than the employee positively making a case. However the standard of 'fairness' seems quite trite if all it entails is following the set procedure. Going first also means that the employer makes the litigant (you) wait longer. This can be stressful in itself but it also means you are potentially allocated less time (since it will comes out of the notional time allowance as the end of the session) to put your own points up.
I (jobbingmusician) take the points made above, and I would stress that your statement is your chance to put your points up. Don’t forget, the tribunal will have had your statement BEFORE the hearing. This is your big chance to express things as clearly as you can, and to put your points fully and clearly. There is no way the tribunal is going to fail to allow you enough time to put your own statement. (Short anecdote – at my own tribunal they forgot to instruct us to provide statements. My employer - who should have been experts at tribunals as representation at tribunals was one of the services they provided (!) - failed to provide one. This not only put them on the wrong foot, but meant that I had a chance to provide a much more structured case than they did. WRITE A CLEAR STATEMENT. IF YOU CAN, RUN IT PAST FRIENDS AND SEE WHAT QUESTIONS THEY RAISE AS A RESULT OF READING IT.
WITNESSES
You might need witnesses to support your case. For example, in mosdee’s own case, s/he tells us that the minutes provided for the meetings were not accurate. If mosdee had a representative or friend with them at these meetings, this person’s statement that the minutes were not accurate could be an excellent support to mosdee’s case.
We can divide witnesses into three sorts.
1. Friends who will happily come on the day of tribunal and testify on your behalf. These can be the best sort. The friend should prepare a statement, in the same format as yours (with numbered paragraphs etc) which is included in the bundle. (Remember, there should be no surprises on the day – producing surprise witnesses is great for courtroom drama on the TV, but does not go down well in ETs.) In my experience sometimes the tribunal will suggest that there is no point in the friendly witness actually speaking, and their evidence may be accepted by the employer (obviously this is not likely to happen in this example).
2. Friends who will support your case but are unwilling or unable to appear personally in court. In this case you can, as I understand it (and I may be wrong – please comment if you feel I am!) submit a statement from them in your bundle. Can anyone please comment on whether this should be a sworn statement?
3. Non-friends who you feel would support your case. In my earlier example, the employee might feel that the manager who authorised their behaviour would be a great witness. It is possible to compel a witness to attend, but all the lawyers I have ever spoken to about this have strongly counselled me against it, telling me that forced witnesses are loose cannons who can damage your case. I simply repeat this frustrating advice.
WHEN YOU RECEIVE THE EMPLOYER’S BUNDLE
Go through the bundle. It should be in the same format as yours. Make sure it contains a statement, and if anything is missing, let the Tribunal know. (For some reason, my employer and I did not exchange bundles until the morning of the tribunal – I can’t remember why this was, or why the Tribunal had failed to tell us how to prepare the bundle. It did make life more difficult for both sides – and the Tribunal! - that the employer had failed to provide a written statement!)
Sit down with their statement and write down all the questions it raises for you. Are any of these questions answered by their statement? Is their statement a surprise? Do things suddenly make more sense to you? Do you still want to bring the ET? (Remembering that if you withdraw you may still be liable for your employer’s costs).
Use your good friends (and the CAB if possible) to review the documents and see what other questions they can squeeze from them. You will have the opportunity to ask your employer these questions when they have delivered their statement.
Remember that quite a bit of your argument is likely to be that they have failed to follow due process. It is therefore likely that quite a few of your questions will start
‘Your procedure says that if [this thing happens] you will [do this thing]. Can you explain to me how you did this?’
(For example, mosdee might ask ‘Can you please explain to me which of the meetings I attended were disciplinary meetings?’ ‘OK, so if meeting 1 was a disciplinary meeting, I now understand, having taken some advice, that I should have been told what issues were being addressed in a disciplinary meeting, and told I was entitled to bring a representative with me. Can you show me where I was told about this?’ ‘Do you agree that if I had had a union representative with me, it would be easier for me to demonstrate that the minutes were inaccurate – or, indeed, for you to demonstrate that they were accurate?’)
When you have your list of questions, go through them with a sharp pair of scissors and a sharper brain (which does not have to be yours!) and cut out all the questions which duplicate each other. You might like to have some questions in brackets – my experience is that tribunals do tend to speed up as time is running out (Milarky agrees with this!) and it will reassure you if you feel you can leave some questions out if necessary.
Get as many good brains as you can – preferably people who DON’T know about the case beforehand – to go through your statement and write questions about it. These are the sort of things you might be asked by the employer.
Remember that the employer has to prove that they acted as a reasonable employer. Milarky writes that if their procedure was wrong, the question is ‘were this flawed procedure to be 'cured' would the conclusion still have been the same one or a different one?’ I disagree with this. If the employer has not followed procedures, a sanction is automatically unfair. If the conclusion would still have been the same had the employer followed their procedures, the remedy may be reduced by contribution so that although the employee wins the tribunal, they do not receive any award. (See below, under the heading ‘reduced awards’)
ON THE DAY
The tribunal is not like a usual court. There are usually 3 members, one of whom (usually the Chair) is legally qualified. The tribunal do not wear wigs or gowns, and the emphasis is on accessibility and (relative to a Crown Court) informality.
As Milarky has pointed out, the employer (as defendant) gets to present their case first. This is because the 'reverse' presumption that the employer must prove they acted fairly rather than the employee positively making a case. You should have had an opportunity to read their bundle before the tribunal, and if they have provided you with a statement you should have a list of questions to ask them. Take a pen with you to write down more questions if they occur to you on the day!
OK, now I must go and do some work. I will still keep an eye out, and continue when I can. Please keep posting below, and I will continue to include contributions in this first post if I can. However, I've just found out that the length of this post is limited, so I will try to sort this out too! (It will be annoying if we have to continue this advice further down the thread).
IF YOU ARE THINKING OF RAISING AN ET - LOOK HERE FOR BASIC ADVICE.
https://www.workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/writing-the-tribunal-claim-et1/
Following Mosdee’s plea for help, I thought it would be sensible to have a thread about how to raise, and prepare for, an Employment Tribunal. I think this should be a sticky – but then again, I could be biased! I stress that I am NOT a lawyer – I am a senior manager who has appeared at tribunal on behalf of my employer, and I have also raised a tribunal against one employer, which I won. But I am sure I will have forgotten lots of things – please do post on this thread if you find anything I have forgotten, and I will try to ensure this first post is edited to include all the useful points we can remember between us!
Please treat this initial post as a first draft – someone had to raise the issue, and I am sure there will be lots of amendments necessary! Comments and corrections are welcome. I have posted an outline framework now, as this is a big project. If anyone wants to ‘adopt a section’ and write it up, they are welcome and I will incorporate points into this first post, with acknowledgments! Some things I simply don’t know, and there are some questions in the text. Those with patience will find them, and we can share knowledge and learn from each other.
When you read this post, bear in mind that all the things between square brackets [like this] need input from you, and should not simply be cut and pasted into whatever you are writing!
1. When should I consider raising an ET case?
You can take your employer to tribunal if you feel that they have treated you unfairly. The most common situations in which people take their employer to tribunal are
- unfair dismissal. (In order to consider this you will have to have been employed by your employer for a year or more).
- constructive dismissal (In order to consider this you will have to have been employed by your employer for a year or more).
- breach of contract
- unfair treatment on grounds of race, sex or age. It is also possible to be unfairly treated on one of these grounds as part of dismissal or breach of contract.
The most important thing to think about is that your employer does not have to be proved to be WRONG. The tribunal will be much more concerned with whether they have FOLLOWED THEIR OWN PROCEDURES and BEHAVED FAIRLY. For example, an innocent employee may be accused of theft and dismissed following an investigation. This would not constitute unfair dismissal if
- the employer had well documented procedures which did not discriminate against employees (even unintentionally) on the basis of race, sex or age
- the employer followed their own procedures
- at the end of the procedures, it was reasonable for the employer to conclude that the employee was guilty.
Before you raise a tribunal, consider what you are hoping to get out of it. If what you really want is a small amount of money and/or an apology, you should consider writing to your employer a letter in the following format
Dear Sir
On [date] the following happened [outline your case here]. I have been advised that this is a clear breach of [employment law/my contract/the race relations/sex discrimination/age discrimination act – these are examples, not an exhaustive list!] because [insert your reason here].
This has obviously been extremely distressing for me, but I am keen to be fair in this matter. If the company is prepared to [your request here, which might be as vague as ‘provide financial restitution and a good reference’] I will consider signing a compromise agreement.
I will not go into an explanation of compromise agreements here, but you can read more about them at http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1075081896
You should note that if you do accept a compromise agreement you will not be able to change your mind and raise an ET!
IF YOU DECIDE TO RAISE AN ET, YOU MUST SUBMIT IT TO THE COURT WITHIN 3 MONTHS OF THE BEHAVIOUR YOU ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT.
2. Should I raise an ET case?
If you are a member of a union, involve your union in your problems as early as possible. The union may well support your case and do much of the work for you. If your union will not support you, be clear about why they will not and consider whether it is worth continuing with what is a very stressful procedure.
It will NOT usually help you to join a Union once problems start. Most unions will not support you in issues which arose before you were a member. (Thanks to SomeBozo for this point.) This guide is generally written to help people who do not have Union support. However, Unions are far from perfect!
Having said that, the following points are still true at the time of writing
- ETs are generally there to support the employee. It is the employer’s responsibility to prove that they are good and fair employers. If there is a bias, it is definitely in favour of the employee.
- It does not cost anything to raise an ET
- If you represent yourself, it does not cost anything to have an ET heard
- It is extremely rare for the ET to award costs against the employee (although it is becoming slightly more common). The only exception to this is if they feel that the employee has brought an ET maliciously, or simply to make trouble for the employer.
- It does seem to me that unions are very wary of supporting their members. They can also be incredibly overworked (I am being charitable here!) and slow to respond to your needs. They will not support you at tribunal unless they (or their lawyers) believe that you have more than a 50% chance of winning. If your union refuses you support, have a long hard think about whether you should be bringing the case. Ask your friends and the CAB/ local advice centre whether they think you should continue. Ask your friends whether they think there is any risk that a lay person could consider that you are simply bringing a malicious case against your employer. (Remember that it is possible to have costs awarded against you, in this case).
- Unions may also want to make their own job as simple as possible, and they may insist you settle out of court for the first offer the employer makes. If you do not settle at this point, they are likely to withdraw their support. It is your decision whether to settle for this offer or continue to tribunal on your own. (Thanks to Horace for this point.)
- Tribunals tend to be slightly less demanding of small employers than they are of larger ones (Thanks to Milarky for this point.) However, recent legislation which requires all employers to have written disciplinary and grievance policies have strengthened the case for employees.
- Once you raise an ET, if you withdraw it you may theoretically be liable for your employer’s costs (in preparing for the ET). My union implied to me that these costs were more likely to be awarded if I withdrew before ET than at ET (where they are rarely awarded against the employee). Others may have other views on this – I’m not sure it’s true!
You can raise a case online, and find lots of details about ETs, at http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/FormsGuidance/formsGuidance.htm
3. How should I prepare for raising an ET?
DOCUMENT CAREFULLY what has gone wrong at work, and how you think your employer has behaved unfairly. Make a CHRONOLOGICAL LIST of what has happened. An example of this is shown below
3.11.09 Circular to all staff about taking supplies without permission
3.1.09 Asked manager if it was OK to take supplies home overnight
3.2. 09 Received memo suspending me from work on suspicion of theft.
4.2.09 Phone call from manager accusing me of theft and saying HR would be in touch
5.2.09 Letter from HR confirming my suspension and saying they would be conducting an investigation.
9.3.09 Letter from HR inviting me to disciplinary interview on 23.3.09
23.3.09 Disciplinary
24.3.09 Received letter sacking me.
BE CLEAR WHAT THE EMPLOYER IS ASSERTING IS WRONG, AND HOW THIS CONTRAVENE’S THE EMPLOYER’S POLICIES
In the (imaginary) example above, the employee is asserting that he asked his manager’s permission for an act he was later sacked for. As soon as he is suspended, he should ask for a copy of the disciplinary and grievance policies. EMPLOYERS HAVE TO HAVE THESE! If your employer does not, this is good news for you! See http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-46.php3?id_article=1752 for details of what your employer is required to do.
RAISE A GRIEVANCE if you feel things are going pear shaped and it is someone else’s fault.
THIS IS IMPORTANT – the ET will ask whether you raised a grievance. In the (imaginary) example above, the employee is asserting that he asked his manager’s permission for an act he was later sacked for. When the employee received the letter on 5.4.09 it should have been clear to him what the disciplinary was about. At this point it should be clear to the employee that he is at risk of being disciplined for something his manager gave him permission to do. He should immediately raise a grievance against his manager, explaining this situation (and any other times he can think of where his manager has done similar things) and send this to HR.
If it is possible, go through the whole grievance procedure. This may not be possible if you are sacked, or if you are given very short notice of redundancy or termination, but in all other cases you should grind to the very end of the company’s grievance procedure, including raising appeals if necessary. In particular, DO NOT RESIGN until you have exhausted the grievance procedure. (Thanks to SomeBozo for this point.)
4. How do I raise an ET case?
The forms are available at http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/FormsGuidance/formsGuidance.htm
You will complete a form called an ET1, and a copy of this will be sent to the employer. The employer will respond on an ET3 form, and the tribunal will then decide whether to accept your claim. Milarky has pointed out that the response from the employer has to be within 3 weeks of receipt of the ET1 – my experience indicates that this time limit is quite rigorously enforced by the tribunals nowadays.
Once your ET1 has been accepted, you can register at this website. http://www.employmenttribunalinfo.org/?gclid=CPXjw9PYvpgCFQtdQgodvVChaA As far as I can tell, this is a legitimate research site, who will pay you £25 for registering with them. They also send you a helpful leaflet on ETs. (I did register, and received my cheque).
OK, at this point I have run out of time for this morning. I’ll be back, as they say, to edit and expand this post. If anyone wants to add points in the meantime, reply to this post and I will incorporate things as necessary.
5. What happens next?
Now, I am going to need some help here, as I can’t actually remember! However, the important things are that at some point (and it’s likely to take a long time) the tribunal will tell you a date for your hearing or pre-hearing, and how long they think the case is likely to take. Alternatively they may ask you to send some further information. They may recommend that you and your employer use ACAS as a mediation service – if this is the case, I would recommend that you accept this offer. It would be difficult for an employer to argue that you are bringing a case against them maliciously if you have shown that you are willing to consider mediation!
Milarky has contributed the following point. Use of ACAS: In principle ACAS will make contact with the employer and sound them out about a compromise well before a Tribunal hearing is scheduled. In practice little energy is devoted to doing so by ACAS and they may (for example) speak to someone other than the named party.
Can other readers of this thread identify some other things I should be saying here?
The important thing which you should do whilst you are waiting for your tribunal date is to get your papers in order. You should now be assembling all your papers into a file, which will be called a BUNDLE. Before the ET, you and your employer will exchange bundles. This gives each side a pre-warning of the arguments the other side will be relying on in court, and there should be no surprises.
When I was an employer in tribunals, my solicitor advised me to prepare my bundles in a specific way. Sadly, I am now relying on memory, but I’m sure other MSErs will help if I have got anything wrong.
THE FORMAT OF YOUR BUNDLE
Page 1 – a page in the following format
Case number – xxxxx (the case number of your ET)
[Your name] versus [your employer’s name].
To be heard at [name of tribunal court, which they will give you]
On [date of hearing]
Page 2 – an index.
Page 3 – your statement. This is what you are going to say in court. You can just read it out. From what I can remember, I was advised to prepare this in a largish font (12) and to put a double space between each paragraph. EVERY PARAGRAPH SHOULD BE NUMBERED.
Page 4 – a chronology of what happened. Simply make a list of all the relevant things that happened and arrange them in date order. If a ‘thing’ relates to a memo or other document, list the number of the document beside it. Your chronology will therefore look something like this (using the example above):
3.11.09 Circular to all staff about taking supplies without permission (5)
3.1.09 Asked manager if it was OK to take supplies home overnight
3.2. 09 Received memo suspending me from work on suspicion of theft. (6)
3.2.09 Wrote to work raising grievance against manager (7)
4.2.09 Phone call from manager accusing me of theft and saying HR would be in touch (note of this call attached as 8)
5.2.09 Letter from HR confirming my suspension and saying they would be conducting an investigation. (9)
9.3.09 Letter from HR inviting me to disciplinary interview on 23.3.09 (10)
23.3.09 Disciplinary (minutes attached as 11)
24.3.09 Received letter sacking me. (12)
You can see from this that the remaining pages of your bundle will be the other papers relevant to your case. These may include all sorts of things – obviously memos and correspondence relating to your case, but you may also want to include memos to other people if you feel others have been treated differently, a copy of the company’s disciplinary and grievance policies or your letters requesting these if they have not been forthcoming, your contract of employment (you should normally be issued with one of these within 2 months of starting work, although it is not mandatory to have a written contract) and anything else you feel is relevant.
The tribunal is likely to ask you to send several copies of your bundle to them before the hearing, so try to ensure that it is on consistent A4 sheets which you can run through a photocopier efficiently when the time comes.
YOUR STATEMENT
Your statement is simply the story of what happened. It should start with a sentence in the following format.
I am [your name here] and I was (or have been, if you are still there) employed by [company name] from [date of starting].
Now tell the story, making sure that it is in chronological order as far as possible and includes reference to all the papers you are planning to include. In particular, make sure it includes the following.
Did you raise a grievance? What happened about that?
Did you have a disciplinary?
When you were called to disciplinary (assuming you had one), were you advised of your right to representation? Did you take a representative? (See the section on witnesses below)
Have you had the minutes of your disciplinary? Have you included them?
Did you appeal against your disciplinary? Is that paperwork included?
Have you included your contract?
Number each paragraph, and keep the paragraphs short. Do a double space after each paragraph. (You may be asked questions in court and want to support your facts with reference to your statement. The easier it is for the court to find things, the happier the court will be).
If you are thinking of getting legal advice at any stage, when you have prepared your statement is a good time to get it. Your case will be organised, and the statement should make it clear why you think you have been unfairly treated, illegally treated, and/or discriminated against on the basis of race, sex or age. Horace suggests that ‘One thing to do with solicitors is a) arrange to see them for a free half hour (take your documentation) then if you decide to employ them, then negotiate a fee.’
The idea of your statement, and of exchanging bundles, is that there should be no surprises on the day. The court should be clear before they see you what your story is and what your employer’s defence is.
Milarky points out that: Unlike normal proceedings, the employer (as defendant) gets to present their case first. This is because the 'reverse' presumption that the employer must prove they acted fairly rather than the employee positively making a case. However the standard of 'fairness' seems quite trite if all it entails is following the set procedure. Going first also means that the employer makes the litigant (you) wait longer. This can be stressful in itself but it also means you are potentially allocated less time (since it will comes out of the notional time allowance as the end of the session) to put your own points up.
I (jobbingmusician) take the points made above, and I would stress that your statement is your chance to put your points up. Don’t forget, the tribunal will have had your statement BEFORE the hearing. This is your big chance to express things as clearly as you can, and to put your points fully and clearly. There is no way the tribunal is going to fail to allow you enough time to put your own statement. (Short anecdote – at my own tribunal they forgot to instruct us to provide statements. My employer - who should have been experts at tribunals as representation at tribunals was one of the services they provided (!) - failed to provide one. This not only put them on the wrong foot, but meant that I had a chance to provide a much more structured case than they did. WRITE A CLEAR STATEMENT. IF YOU CAN, RUN IT PAST FRIENDS AND SEE WHAT QUESTIONS THEY RAISE AS A RESULT OF READING IT.
WITNESSES
You might need witnesses to support your case. For example, in mosdee’s own case, s/he tells us that the minutes provided for the meetings were not accurate. If mosdee had a representative or friend with them at these meetings, this person’s statement that the minutes were not accurate could be an excellent support to mosdee’s case.
We can divide witnesses into three sorts.
1. Friends who will happily come on the day of tribunal and testify on your behalf. These can be the best sort. The friend should prepare a statement, in the same format as yours (with numbered paragraphs etc) which is included in the bundle. (Remember, there should be no surprises on the day – producing surprise witnesses is great for courtroom drama on the TV, but does not go down well in ETs.) In my experience sometimes the tribunal will suggest that there is no point in the friendly witness actually speaking, and their evidence may be accepted by the employer (obviously this is not likely to happen in this example).
2. Friends who will support your case but are unwilling or unable to appear personally in court. In this case you can, as I understand it (and I may be wrong – please comment if you feel I am!) submit a statement from them in your bundle. Can anyone please comment on whether this should be a sworn statement?
3. Non-friends who you feel would support your case. In my earlier example, the employee might feel that the manager who authorised their behaviour would be a great witness. It is possible to compel a witness to attend, but all the lawyers I have ever spoken to about this have strongly counselled me against it, telling me that forced witnesses are loose cannons who can damage your case. I simply repeat this frustrating advice.
WHEN YOU RECEIVE THE EMPLOYER’S BUNDLE
Go through the bundle. It should be in the same format as yours. Make sure it contains a statement, and if anything is missing, let the Tribunal know. (For some reason, my employer and I did not exchange bundles until the morning of the tribunal – I can’t remember why this was, or why the Tribunal had failed to tell us how to prepare the bundle. It did make life more difficult for both sides – and the Tribunal! - that the employer had failed to provide a written statement!)
Sit down with their statement and write down all the questions it raises for you. Are any of these questions answered by their statement? Is their statement a surprise? Do things suddenly make more sense to you? Do you still want to bring the ET? (Remembering that if you withdraw you may still be liable for your employer’s costs).
Use your good friends (and the CAB if possible) to review the documents and see what other questions they can squeeze from them. You will have the opportunity to ask your employer these questions when they have delivered their statement.
Remember that quite a bit of your argument is likely to be that they have failed to follow due process. It is therefore likely that quite a few of your questions will start
‘Your procedure says that if [this thing happens] you will [do this thing]. Can you explain to me how you did this?’
(For example, mosdee might ask ‘Can you please explain to me which of the meetings I attended were disciplinary meetings?’ ‘OK, so if meeting 1 was a disciplinary meeting, I now understand, having taken some advice, that I should have been told what issues were being addressed in a disciplinary meeting, and told I was entitled to bring a representative with me. Can you show me where I was told about this?’ ‘Do you agree that if I had had a union representative with me, it would be easier for me to demonstrate that the minutes were inaccurate – or, indeed, for you to demonstrate that they were accurate?’)
When you have your list of questions, go through them with a sharp pair of scissors and a sharper brain (which does not have to be yours!) and cut out all the questions which duplicate each other. You might like to have some questions in brackets – my experience is that tribunals do tend to speed up as time is running out (Milarky agrees with this!) and it will reassure you if you feel you can leave some questions out if necessary.
Get as many good brains as you can – preferably people who DON’T know about the case beforehand – to go through your statement and write questions about it. These are the sort of things you might be asked by the employer.
Remember that the employer has to prove that they acted as a reasonable employer. Milarky writes that if their procedure was wrong, the question is ‘were this flawed procedure to be 'cured' would the conclusion still have been the same one or a different one?’ I disagree with this. If the employer has not followed procedures, a sanction is automatically unfair. If the conclusion would still have been the same had the employer followed their procedures, the remedy may be reduced by contribution so that although the employee wins the tribunal, they do not receive any award. (See below, under the heading ‘reduced awards’)
ON THE DAY
The tribunal is not like a usual court. There are usually 3 members, one of whom (usually the Chair) is legally qualified. The tribunal do not wear wigs or gowns, and the emphasis is on accessibility and (relative to a Crown Court) informality.
As Milarky has pointed out, the employer (as defendant) gets to present their case first. This is because the 'reverse' presumption that the employer must prove they acted fairly rather than the employee positively making a case. You should have had an opportunity to read their bundle before the tribunal, and if they have provided you with a statement you should have a list of questions to ask them. Take a pen with you to write down more questions if they occur to you on the day!
OK, now I must go and do some work. I will still keep an eye out, and continue when I can. Please keep posting below, and I will continue to include contributions in this first post if I can. However, I've just found out that the length of this post is limited, so I will try to sort this out too! (It will be annoying if we have to continue this advice further down the thread).
Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).
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Comments
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2 issues jump out at me
1) Its generally accepted that you have to exhaust the companies grievance procedure before going to ET. (though they are times when this can't happen)
2) Again (and this seems to be the issue with a lot of advice on the Employment board) that unions are the "be all and all". Often unions won't help if you join it just because you have a problem (as you are joining after the event), plus the union is not the only source of good independant advice.
Bozo0 -
One thing that a union will do is settle for less money, mine tried it with me so basically I sacked them and took legal advice - funny how the settlement was double that that the union wanted me to accept.:rolleyes: Unions are not interested in taking a case to a tribunal because they want to take the easiest route, settle early regardless of whether or not it is beneficial to their client, they are just in it for the kudos.
One thing to do with solicitors is a) arrange to see them for a free half hour (take your documentation) then if you decide to employ them, then negotiate a fee.
Don't ever trust a union with your paperwork either - make sure that you keep a copy of everything - I know this from experience because my union lost my file which was 2 inches thick:mad: , thank goodness I had kept a copy0 -
One thing that a union will do is settle for less money, mine tried it with me so basically I sacked them and took legal advice - funny how the settlement was double that that the union wanted me to accept.:rolleyes: Unions are not interested in taking a case to a tribunal because they want to take the easiest route, settle early regardless of whether or not it is beneficial to their client, they are just in it for the kudos.
One thing to do with solicitors is a) arrange to see them for a free half hour (take your documentation) then if you decide to employ them, then negotiate a fee.
Don't ever trust a union with your paperwork either - make sure that you keep a copy of everything - I know this from experience because my union lost my file which was 2 inches thick:mad: , thank goodness I had kept a copy
Yes, and unfortunatly "join a union" seems to be rolled out on these boards as they best way to go!
Bozo0 -
Thank you jobbingmusician for your help. Thank you everyone who has dropped a line or so in support. My case is a little complecated. Let me hope none of the "managers" or staff from my former employer are here. haha
I would like to provide a bit more about my case so everyone can get a better idea so as to offer your help in full.
I raised an issue before the allegations. The issue was not dealt with fully.
A few months later, I found a later in my "box" at work requesting me to attend an interview about some activities. The interview was to take place in approx. 8days. That later did not provide any information with regards to the "actvities"!
During the interview, i was asked to explain missing transactions and payments from Items that I had sold then. By the way, it was 7 weeks after the allegaed incident took place and the amount was not clarified. I could honestly not remember what happened then. That what my answer was on the first interview.
My employer claimed to have used a mystery shopper. When I requested for the mystery shopper's report, they refused to provided it. I requested for the evidence by which they were basing thier accusations, they refused to provided that. Please note my employer had never provided any policies with regards to mystery shoppers. At the end of the interview, I was suspended.
The minutes taken and recorded device were not signed and not provided on the day of the interview. No written notice to clarify the reason for my suspension. I was asked to attend a second interview after a week.
During the second interview, I was asked the same questions as those asked from the first interview. I requested for the out come of the investigation during my suspension, nothing was provided. A tape recorder was used during interview then was switched off. What was said when it was switched off was never included in the minutes. Again no copies of the minutes or recorded devices were provided to me.
Nearly 7 weeks later, after I had contacted my employer, they invited me for a third interview. Same questions were asked. I was then charged with gross misconduct. It was then that I was provided with copies of the minutes. I had not signed those minutes. Copies of recording devices were not provided. They had been destroyed. They minutes were inaccurate.
Please note that the system by which I was accused of taking money for my own again was defectives on several accassions.
My case was accepted my the tribunal. Copies of my ET1 were sent to my former employer and to the ACAS.
I hope to get as much help as I can get from you members. I would like to know how to prepare my self for the hearing.
I would like to request for a step by step guide on how to get through.
What is likely to be the next step?
How do I present my statement?
Do I get straight to the point of why I think it was unfair dismissal?
Some one please give me a true picture of how events unfold during those hearing?
I appreciated your help and support everyone.0 -
Oh I forgot to ask about what kind of questions the tribunal is likely to ask me? I believe jobbingmusician you have a good idea of what happens in during the hearing. Please advise as much as you can.0
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OK, first post updated, but still far from complete.
In answer to your last question, mosdee, they will ask questions based on your statement.I raised an issue before the allegations. The issue was not dealt with fully.Was this a formal grievance? (Recent cases actually suggest that it does not necessarily mean that it will not be considered a grievance if you didn't say it was. Did you raise the issue in writing? Do you have a copy?)
A few months later, I found a later in my "box" at work requesting me to attend an interview about some activities. The interview was to take place in approx. 8days. That later did not provide any information with regards to the "actvities"! You are correct that they should have told you what the allegations were. Was it made clear that this was a disciplinary interview? Were you told of your right to be accompanied?
During the interview, i was asked to explain missing transactions and payments from Items that I had sold then. By the way, it was 7 weeks after the allegaed incident took place and the amount was not clarified. I could honestly not remember what happened then. That what my answer was on the first interview.
My employer claimed to have used a mystery shopper. When I requested for the mystery shopper's report, they refused to provided it. I requested for the evidence by which they were basing thier accusations, they refused to provided that. My understanding is that they would have to provide these things at tribunal. Please note my employer had never provided any policies with regards to mystery shoppers. I don't think this necessarily matters - it might well be judged that the employer has the right to check up on their staff without warning them of such checks. At the end of the interview, I was suspended. So it does seem that this was a disciplinary interview. Again, were you warned and advised of your right to be accompanied?
The minutes taken and recorded device were not signed and not provided on the day of the interview. No written notice to clarify the reason for my suspension. I was asked to attend a second interview after a week.
During the second interview, I was asked the same questions as those asked from the first interview. I requested for the out come of the investigation during my suspension, nothing was provided. A tape recorder was used during interview then was switched off. What was said when it was switched off was never included in the minutes. Again no copies of the minutes or recorded devices were provided to me.
Nearly 7 weeks later, after I had contacted my employer, they invited me for a third interview. Same questions were asked. I was then charged with gross misconduct. It was then that I was provided with copies of the minutes. I had not signed those minutes. Copies of recording devices were not provided. They had been destroyed. They minutes were inaccurate. I agree that their minutes system seems unfair. Did you have anyone accompanying you at the meetings who can verify your assertion that the minutes were inaccurate? Again, were you invited to have anyone accompanying you?
Please note that the system by which I was accused of taking money for my own again was defectives on several accassions.
My case was accepted my the tribunal. Copies of my ET1 were sent to my former employer and to the ACAS.
I hope to get as much help as I can get from you members. I would like to know how to prepare my self for the hearing.
I would like to request for a step by step guide on how to get through.
What is likely to be the next step?
How do I present my statement?
Do I get straight to the point of why I think it was unfair dismissal? Depending on your answers to my questions above, it does sound as if you might have a case for unfair dismissal. This is based on the idea I have formed that your disciplinary did not follow the required disciplinary process. However, I am conscious that you need to answer the questions above.....
Some one please give me a true picture of how events unfold during those hearing? I'll try to do this as the first post grows!
I appreciated your help and support everyone.Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).0 -
Thanks for this thread. I was involved in a Tribunal several years ago - and I believe that procedures have been tightened up somewhat since that time (eg It is now necessary to have exhausted the employer's own appeal process before making a complaint - IT1)
There are differences with small employer's as mine was. The 'size of the undertaking': allowance will be made for the fact that small employers have limited resources - and so to be 'fair' they don't have to be as 'fair' as a comparable large employer would have been. in terms of what practices they follow.
Employer replying to an ET1 (with an ET3) They are supposed to reply within 3 weeks but this was not strictly enforced in the past. In my case no ET3 was received in time, a hearing date was then scheduled - the employer having 'lost' the right to put a case but still having the right to be present. However the employer then responded with a claim that their ET3 had gone in the post on the last possible date. This was accepted, I think, because the claim was made by their representative. A later hearing was thus scheduled (with more time) allowing the employer to belatedly be represented.
Use of ACAS: In principle ACAS will make contact with the employer and sound them out about a compromise well before a Tribunal hearing is scheduled. In practice little energy is devoted to doing so by ACAS and they may (for example) speak to someone other than the named party. In my case it transpired (but only because I asked them after the case) that ACAS had never spoken to the employer in person - simply his wife - in sounding out their attitude to compromise. As the complaint was against the employer (and not his wife) this seemed quite poor to me.
Unlike normal proceedings, the employer (as defendant) gets to present their case first. This is because the 'reverse' presumption that the employer must prove they acted fairly rather than the employee positively making a case. However the standard of 'fairness' seems quite trite if all it entails is following the set procedure. Going first also means that the employer makes the litigant (you) wait longer. This can be stressful in itself but it also means you are potentially allocated less time (since it will comes out of the notional time allowance as the end of the session) to put your own points up.
Representing yourself at Tribunal. This is the 'biggy' IMO. Whereas a represented party can be asked 'friendly' (and selective) questions by their paid representative before any (hostile) cross examination, a self-represented person cannot ask themselves questions under oath. The use of the oath also means that a different procedure is resorted to where the witness/party is first cross-examined and then further examined by the Tribunal. The difference between being able to state your position positively before being forced to defend yourself - and simply going straight into hostile questioning is a considerable one. For this reason alone, being represented by anybody is preferable to being self represented. In effect Tribunal procedures practically assume that both sides cases will be put by advocates.
'Contribution'. This term more or less always comes up. If the employee has acted negligently to any extent at all their substantive complaint (eg unfair dismissal) can be diluted - anywhere between 0% and 100%. This gives any employer defending a claim a 'second bite' in terms of arguing that, although they failed to act fairly, it shouldn't make any (or as much difference) as if they had acted fairly because the employee did not fully cooperate with them and/or was partly (or wholly) the 'author of their own misfortune'. To take the fictitious example, where the employee only asked their manager after a first occasion (and told it was 'OK within reason') they were clearly contributory to their own dismissal because they acted wrongly in the first instance - and no employer would condone what they did without asking a manager beforehand. So beware contribution (although this should form part of the consideration and discussions before deciding whether or not a case is worth taking forward)
I tend to agree with the previous commentsA few months later, I found a later in my "box" at work requesting me to attend an interview about some activities. The interview was to take place in approx. 8days. That later did not provide any information with regards to the "actvities"!
During the interview, i was asked to explain missing transactions and payments from Items that I had sold then. By the way, it was 7 weeks after the allegaed incident took place and the amount was not clarified. I could honestly not remember what happened then. That what my answer was on the first interview.
My employer claimed to have used a mystery shopper. When I requested for the mystery shopper's report, they refused to provided it. I requested for the evidence by which they were basing their accusations, they refused to provided that. Please note my employer had never provided any policies with regards to mystery shoppers. At the end of the interview, I was suspended.
The minutes taken and recorded device were not signed and not provided on the day of the interview. No written notice to clarify the reason for my suspension. I was asked to attend a second interview after a week.
i.e.
Is this necessarily wrong - since at the investigation stage;
1) they are 'asking the questions' (although I take your point that they have to assist you in being able to answer them) and
2) there is no question of disciplinary action as an outcome (suspension with pay being a non-judgemental action)
The argument, as ever, later becomes; were this flawed procedure to be 'cured' would the conclusion still have been the same one or a different one?.....under construction.... COVID is a [discontinued] scam0 -
Thank you jobbingmusician, thank you Milarky, thank you everyone. I realised I made loads of typing errors in my previous posts. I'm trying to avoid them this time.
In response to Milarky's reply. I believe it was wrong practise not to provide me with the minutes so I could sign and mark the end of the interview. As a result, they edited what had been said to suit thier allegations. I recorded tape was used which I had not been advised of before the interview. I was asked if they could use it, I agreed and asked for a copy. They agreed to provide copies which they did not provide in the end.
The other issue was about the time my employer took to ask me about the alleged incident. Like I said it was nearly 7 weeks. Then when I was suspended, it was to unable them to carry out the investigation properly. I asked for the out come of the investigation they said they had the same evidence they had collected in the first place. I believe that was wrong as they did not allow me to disaprove thier claims. They denied me the opportunity to present my side of the story fairly. The other issue I would like some to put some light on is the fact that they switched the tape off which was part of the evidence. It was destroyed to kill facts that I had raised during the interviews.
I raised a grievance about;
unrealistic allegations,
wrong investigatory procedure,
failure to provide the minutes.
I got a response over 50 days later. They said I didnt have a valid grievance.
I requested for the company's disciplinary procedure which they provided after I was dismissed.
During the displinary, I notified the panel about the inaccuracy of the minutes. The panel then said they would not make a decision then. They said they would contact me in a couple of days. I got a letter of dismissal after 17 days. That was after I contacted the HR to request for the final decision.
Ladies and gentlemen, from what I have posted so far with the help of jobbingmusician, I request you to advise and point out what you think is not convincing. That way I will be able to prepare my self better.
Thak you again for you support and advise.0 -
Thank you jobbingmusician, thank you Milarky, thank you everyone. I realised I made loads of typing errors in my previous posts. I'm trying to avoid them this time.
In response to Milarky's reply. I believe it was wrong practise not to provide me with the minutes so I could sign and mark the end of the interview. As a result, they edited what had been said to suit thier allegations. I recorded tape was used which I had not been advised of before the interview. I was asked if they could use it, I agreed and asked for a copy. They agreed to provide copies which they did not provide in the end.
The other issue was about the time my employer took to ask me about the alleged incident. Like I said it was nearly 7 weeks. Then when I was suspended, it was to unable them to carry out the investigation properly. I asked for the out come of the investigation they said they had the same evidence they had collected in the first place. I believe that was wrong as they did not allow me to disaprove thier claims. They denied me the opportunity to present my side of the story fairly. The other issue I would like some to put some light on is the fact that they switched the tape off which was part of the evidence. It was destroyed to kill facts that I had raised during the interviews.
I raised a grievance about;
unrealistic allegations,
wrong investigatory procedure,
failure to provide the minutes.
I got a response over 50 days later. They said I didnt have a valid grievance.
I requested for the company's disciplinary procedure which they provided after I was dismissed.
During the displinary, I notified the panel about the inaccuracy of the minutes. The panel then said they would not make a decision then. They said they would contact me in a couple of days. I got a letter of dismissal after 17 days. That was after I contacted the HR to request for the final decision.
Ladies and gentlemen, from what I have posted so far with the help of jobbingmusician, I request you to advise and point out what you think is not convincing. That way I will be able to prepare my self better.
Thak you again for your support and advise.0 -
Ladies and gentlemen,
Have you given up on contributing towards my plea for help on this thread?!?
I'm relying on your assistance to represent my self in the tribunal. The relationship we have on here is magical. I have learnt a lot from this forum. By the way, I have to say that I got some of my PPI back from NATWEST and MBNA with the help of this website and forum. It's a different topic but I just wanted to high light the fact that this forum is magical!
Back to my plea for help.
Has anyone got any ideas how I could present the fact that my former employer used a mystery shopper without a notice that my service delivery would be checked through mystery shopping? I looked at the MRS's (Market Research Society) code of practise, I realised that my former employer breached that code of practise.
The mystery shopper claimed to have been used was a member of staff and known to the managers who carried out the investigation. I believe there is a girlfriend or boyfriend relationship. How would I bring it to the tribunal? I mean how do I present that? I have no clear proof that they are into that relationship. I know someone will ask how do I know, I do because everyone in the company knows. They do normal things couples do. (Not seen them kiss tho!) ha ha ha
The other issue I would like someone to put some light on is the use of CCTV footage. That was not included in the minutes. However during the interviews, they tried to force me to watch the footage. I did not agree to it because they said they would find me guilty if a transaction was found missing on the sales report. It did not make sense to me so I asked them to provide me with the company's code of practise with regards to CCTV recording of staff activities. Please note that was some of what was said when the recorder was switched off and was not included in the minutes.
Memebers what have you got to say towards that?
Your contribution is much appreciated.0
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