Employment Tribunal Help

lbell_3

Hi jobbingmusician,

I think this is a very good idea for a thread. A couple of points I wanted to raise by way of general guidance:

The ET is not there to support the employee over the employer. The ET is completely impartial and will apply the law to the case in front of them. In relation to the employer having to present their case first that is mainly with unfair dismissal cases in which the burden of proof is on them to show that the dismissal was fair. In discrimination claims for example the employee will usually give evidence first because it is for the employee to show that they were discriminated against.

If you are claiming discrimination, it can only be on the grounds of sex, race, age, disability, sexual orientation, religion or belief. You cannot have a freestanding discrimination claim if it is not on one of those bases. Same with 'bullying'. That is not a freestanding claim, though it could be part of an unfair dismissal claim or discrimination claim.

If the ET 'accepts' your claim. that in no way indicates that your case has any merit, merely that you've completed the correct boxes of the form, and that you've said that you've complied with any grievance procedure.

The ET does not "recommend that you and your employer use ACAS as a mediation service" They will simply send a copy of your claim form (ET1) and employer's response form (ET3) to ACAS to enable ACAS to contact both parties and try to reach a settlement without the need for the tribunal hearing.

The respondent (employer) has 28 days to respond to the claim from the date the claim is sent to them. They can request an extension of time to this in writing.

Any application that you want to make to the ET, eg. for a postponement, if you want an order for disclosure against the respondent etc, must be put in writing (post/fax/email) and cannot be actioned by telephone.

The ET is not an advisory service. They cannot give you legal advice or help you fill out your ET1 claim form. If you want general legal advice on an Employment matter then ACAS is a good first starting point - 08457 47 47 47

The section where you've outlined how to put a bundle together is very useful, but I just want to stress that a claimant should not get too worried about the format of their bundle. The judge will not expect you to produce documentation that looks like it has just stepped out of a solicitor's office (unless you are a solicitor!). The ET will often direct a joint bundle to be produced between the parties, not an employee's one and an employer's one.

A bundle is just a collection of documents that is relevant evidence for the Hearing. eg. a contract of employment

A witness statement is just a document that tells the version of events from the point of view of that witness (the claimant is also a 'witness' and will therefore need to produce a statement in a standard/complex case) and should refer to documents in the bundle if relevant, eg "On 5/2/09 I attended a meeting with my line manager (see notes at doc 47 of bundle)"

You may not need a witness statement if you have a simple case, eg. unpaid wages

If you are unsure of any jargon/procedure in your case then ring the ET office and ask. They are unable to give legal advice, as I previously mentioned, but will be able to explain what a bundle is for example.

It is very important to note that if you are successful with your case, the ET has no powers of enforcement. If the respondent refuses to pay then you'll need to enforce that judgment in the county court.

Another thing that is really important to know is that most tribunal hearings are public. I'm pointing that out because if you are involved in a tribunal then the best way to get an idea of what will happen at the hearing is to go and watch one. Contact the ET office and they will be able to advise you further of start times/location etc. You will find that very useful.

That's all I had off the top of my head.

mosdee

Thank you lbell for your contribution. I will go there and experience that feeling. I thinks that's a very good idea. vbmenu_register("postmenu_18489033", true);

walmsley7274_2

Just wanted to contribute to this thread, I am or have finished my masters degree in Human Resources Management and recently this is a topic which is close to my heart.

My boyfriend was recently unfairly dismissed, :mad: mainly on the basis that (a) the SDDP (statutory disciplinary dismissal procedures) were not followed (b) no consulation. There argument was that they were applying the clause in the contract of 'layoff' I kindly informed them that this does not give them the right to dismiss him without (a) or (b) points. He received a letter which gave him his weeks notice. nothing else and I mean nothing else. :eek: he has subsequently been given his P45 and outstanding holiday pay. Like I said a straightforward unfair dismissal.

What makes it even more interesting is that he was 1 week away from 2 years service, it is evident that they didn't have the work for him so in reality they have made him redundant. Therefore if they had of consulted he would have been entitled to redundany pay, plus an extra weeks notice.

Anyway after pointing this out to them I have now submitted an ET1 form online!!! I'm very scared and think this thread will be ideal!

I have had experience of employment tribunal in my HR Role, although this is defending them and not raising them.

I am asking that I do have a basic idea of the 'compensation' which I need to put forward when asked, but would like some idea from you guys on here. We would be applying the £330 limit rather than £350 due to the dismissal taking place on the 21.11.08, this is before the increase.

Any advice in the right direction welcome. I am tackling this by myself due to it a) being a very very very straightforward claim! and b) it is excellent experience for my work:j and my other half doesn't want to involve anyone else.

PS. If am able to advise anyone else please ask away!

olly300

walmsley7274 wrote: »

Just wanted to contribute to this thread, I am or have finished my masters degree in Human Resources Management and recently this is a topic which is close to my heart.

My boyfriend was recently unfairly dismissed, :mad: mainly on the basis that (a) the SDDP (statutory disciplinary dismissal procedures) were not followed (b) no consulation. There argument was that they were applying the clause in the contract of 'layoff' I kindly informed them that this does not give them the right to dismiss him without (a) or (b) points. He received a letter which gave him his weeks notice. nothing else and I mean nothing else. :eek: he has subsequently been given his P45 and outstanding holiday pay. Like I said a straightforward unfair dismissal.

What makes it even more interesting is that he was 1 week away from 2 years service, it is evident that they didn't have the work for him so in reality they have made him redundant. Therefore if they had of consulted he would have been entitled to redundany pay, plus an extra weeks notice.

Anyway after pointing this out to them I have now submitted an ET1 form online!!! I'm very scared and think this thread will be ideal!

I have had experience of employment tribunal in my HR Role, although this is defending them and not raising them.

I am asking that I do have a basic idea of the 'compensation' which I need to put forward when asked, but would like some idea from you guys on here. We would be applying the £330 limit rather than £350 due to the dismissal taking place on the 21.11.08, this is before the increase.

Any advice in the right direction welcome. I am tackling this by myself due to it a) being a very very very straightforward claim! and b) it is excellent experience for my work:j and my other half doesn't want to involve anyone else.

PS. If am able to advise anyone else please ask away!

You are a lay person not a solicitor or a trade union official therefore ask for the larger amount. The only thing the tribunal can do is state that the larger amount is not applicable and award you the smaller amount.

What is likely to happen due to the small sum being asked for if the employer is small or medium sized company and they bother to take legal advice, they will agree to a compromise agreement and likely give you the higher sum as it will cost them much more in legal fees to fight the case then to give you the money and gag you.

mosdee

mosdee wrote: »

Thank you jobbingmusician, thank you Milarky, thank you everyone. I realised I made loads of typing errors in my previous posts. I'm trying to avoid them this time.

In response to Milarky's reply. I believe it was wrong practise not to provide me with the minutes so I could sign and mark the end of the interview. As a result, they edited what had been said to suit thier allegations. I recorded tape was used which I had not been advised of before the interview. I was asked if they could use it, I agreed and asked for a copy. They agreed to provide copies which they did not provide in the end.

The other issue was about the time my employer took to ask me about the alleged incident. Like I said it was nearly 7 weeks. Then when I was suspended, it was to unable them to carry out the investigation properly. I asked for the out come of the investigation they said they had the same evidence they had collected in the first place. I believe that was wrong as they did not allow me to disaprove thier claims. They denied me the opportunity to present my side of the story fairly. The other issue I would like some to put some light on is the fact that they switched the tape off which was part of the evidence. It was destroyed to kill facts that I had raised during the interviews.

I raised a grievance about;
unrealistic allegations,
wrong investigatory procedure,
failure to provide the minutes.
I got a response over 50 days later. They said I didnt have a valid grievance.
I requested for the company's disciplinary procedure which they provided after I was dismissed.

During the displinary, I notified the panel about the inaccuracy of the minutes. The panel then said they would not make a decision then. They said they would contact me in a couple of days. I got a letter of dismissal after 17 days. That was after I contacted the HR to request for the final decision.

Ladies and gentlemen, from what I have posted so far with the help of jobbingmusician, I request you to advise and point out what you think is not convincing. That way I will be able to prepare my self better.
Thak you again for your support and advise.

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to update you about my case. I received a copy of the defendant's ET3 form (former employer). They said the could not admit or deny my claim. They asked the tribunal a stay in the proceedings with the case because they want to respond to both of my appeals.
(Dismissal and grievance). They proposed a date which is 20th /03/2009.

Like I said before, they failed to follow my grievance through before I got dismissed. They claimed not to have received it. I emailed proof of deliverly from Royal mail to them.

They also made unrealistic and unreasonable delays during the investigation. I believe they were trying to make me fall out of the time limit to submit my claim to the tribunal.

Money savers, please note I made my appeal towards the end of January this year. The tribunal stated that they will advise me of the date of the hearing. They also stated that they had forwarded a copy of the form the respondant to ACAS.

I would like to know if it is right for them (my former employer) to consider my appeal at this stage?

jobbingmusician

They can certainly consider it, but I don't think it will help their case at tribunal. The most likely thing I would predict (remember I am not a lawyer) is that they will consider your appeal and make you an offer! You will have to consider this carefully as the tribunal will take into account that you have refused an offer if you do decide to refuse it and take it to the tribunal.

It seems to me very common that employers apply for deferral - you'll have to hang on to see if the tribunal accept their request. The tribunal may ring you for your views - when they did this to me the first time, I said that I was quite happy to be accommodating - I hoped by this to show the tribunal that i was a helpful and reasonable employee (impossible to tell whether I did actually demonstrate this).

However, for the moment, sit back and relax! The employer is obviously sweating, which is satisfying in itself.

mosdee

jobbingmusician wrote: »

They can certainly consider it, but I don't think it will help their case at tribunal. The most likely thing I would predict (remember I am not a lawyer) is that they will consider your appeal and make you an offer! You will have to consider this carefully as the tribunal will take into account that you have refused an offer if you do decide to refuse it and take it to the tribunal.

It seems to me very common that employers apply for deferral - you'll have to hang on to see if the tribunal accept their request. The tribunal may ring you for your views - when they did this to me the first time, I said that I was quite happy to be accommodating - I hoped by this to show the tribunal that i was a helpful and reasonable employee (impossible to tell whether I did actually demonstrate this).

However, for the moment, sit back and relax! The employer is obviously sweating, which is satisfying in itself.

Thank you for your help jobbingmusician. I am scared ****less! I cant sleep which has affected my confidence. I have applied for over 25 jobs but with no success!

What scares me is the fact that I do not have a representative. To make the matters worse, I can't get my statement ready. I have so much information flowing out of my head that I fail to put it down in a good order. I'm trying to follow the steps you drafted out for me. It is still hard. My relationship has been affected too. I get very aggressive the way I talk to my girlfriend.
I cant ignore what I would normally! Anyway, back to the main issue.

My former employer denied the figures I indicated as my salary including over time. I worked out my salary on a basis of average! Every month I earned different wages because of different hours of over time I made.

They also said that they reserve the right to apply for further and better particulars in due course. They are refering to the information i raised in section 5.1 and 9.1.

I would like to ask you if you can help and put some light on this:
Considering the case is already a claim at the tribunal, is it right for them (former employer) to arrange for the appeal hearing after this long? Nearly Two and half months.

The tribunal notified me that they will inform me of the hearing date. But then the ET3 form was accepted. Does that mean I will attend the appeal hearing still?
ACAS has not said anything yet apart from the first letter they sent me.

Looking at how the last interviews and disciplinary were handled I do not feel comfirtable to attend the appeal hearing. I attended all 4 meetings with my former employer on my own. They treated me like I was in a court of Law. They took advantage and destroyed recorded materials and amended the minutes as they wished. What would be the best way to prepare for the appeal hearing?

Your answers will be appreciated.

mosdee

jobbingmusician wrote: »

They can certainly consider it, but I don't think it will help their case at tribunal. The most likely thing I would predict (remember I am not a lawyer) is that they will consider your appeal and make you an offer! You will have to consider this carefully as the tribunal will take into account that you have refused an offer if you do decide to refuse it and take it to the tribunal.

It seems to me very common that employers apply for deferral - you'll have to hang on to see if the tribunal accept their request. The tribunal may ring you for your views - when they did this to me the first time, I said that I was quite happy to be accommodating - I hoped by this to show the tribunal that i was a helpful and reasonable employee (impossible to tell whether I did actually demonstrate this).

However, for the moment, sit back and relax! The employer is obviously sweating, which is satisfying in itself.

Thank you for your help jobbingmusician. I am scared ****less! I cant sleep which has affected my confidence. I have applied for over 25 jobs but with no success!

What scares me is the fact that I do not have a representative. To make the matters worse, I can't get my statement ready. I have so much information flowing out of my head that I fail to put it down in a good order. I'm trying to follow the steps you drafted out for me. It is still hard. My relationship has been affected too. I get very aggressive the way I talk to with my girlfriend.
I cant ignore what I would normally! Anyway, back to the main issue.

My former employer denied the figures I indicated as my salary including over time. I worked out my salary on a basis of average! Every month I earned different wages because of different hours of over time I made.

They also that they reserve the right to apply for further and better particulars in due course. They are refering to section 5.1 and 9.1.

I would like to ask you if you can help and put some light on this:
Considering the case is already a claim at the tribunal, is it right for them (former employer) to arrange for the appeal hearing after this long?

The tribunal notified me that they will inform me of the hearing date. But then the ET3 form was accepted. Does that mean I will attend the appeal hearing still?

Looking at how the last interviews and disciplinary were handled I do not feel confirtable to attend the appeal. I attended all 4 meeting with them on my own. They took advantage and destroyed recorded materials and the notes.
What would be the best way to prepare for the appeal hearing?

Your answers will be appreciated.

mosdee

Hi jobbingmusician,

I did not realise that you had edited within one the post I made before.
I never answered questions that you raised. I have just realised as I was going through all the posts. Take a look below. The answers are in blue.


Originally Posted by mosdee
I raised an issue before the allegations. The issue was not dealt with fully.Was this a formal grievance? (Recent cases actually suggest that it does not necessarily mean that it will not be considered a grievance if you didn't say it was. Did you raise the issue in writing? Do you have a copy?) No, the issue was to do with the contract. Yes I raised the issue in writing and have a copy but did not get a response. I phoned and arranged to see the boss. Issue was not fully resolved

A few months later, I found a later in my "box" at work requesting me to attend an interview about some activities. The interview was to take place in approx. 8days. That later did not provide any information with regards to the "actvities"! You are correct that they should have told you what the allegations were. Was it made clear that this was a disciplinary interview? Were you told of your right to be accompanied? It was not a disciplinary, it was the 1st interview and yes they told me to bring a union rep or colleague if I wished

During the interview, i was asked to explain missing transactions and payments from Items that I had sold then. By the way, it was 7 weeks after the alleged incident took place and the amount was not clarified. I could honestly not remember what happened then. That what my answer was on the first interview.

My employer claimed to have used a mystery shopper. When I requested for the mystery shopper's report, they refused to provided it. I requested for the evidence by which they were basing their accusations, they refused to provided that. My understanding is that they would have to provide these things at tribunal. Is that acceptable? I requested for that info during the investigation period. Please note my employer had never provided any policies with regards to mystery shoppers. I don't think this necessarily matters - it might well be judged that the employer has the right to check up on their staff without warning them of such checks. I had a look at the union’s website, there is a chapter which denies use of CCTV to spy on staff. I also had a look at the at the DIRECT GOV website, I found out that it is wrong practice for employer to apply policies that were not made aware staff. Do you know anything about that? At the end of the interview, I was suspended. So it does seem that this was a disciplinary interview. Again, were you warned and advised of your right to be accompanied? I was not warned but was told to bring a witness if I wished
The minutes taken and recorded device were not signed and not provided on the day of the interview. No written notice to clarify the reason for my suspension. I was asked to attend a second interview after a week.

During the second interview, I was asked the same questions as those asked from the first interview. I requested for the out come of the investigation during my suspension, nothing was provided. A tape recorder was used during interview then was switched off. What was said when it was switched off was never included in the minutes. Again no copies of the minutes or recorded devices were provided to me.

Nearly 7 weeks later, after I had contacted my employer, they invited me for a third interview. Same questions were asked. I was then charged with gross misconduct. It was then that I was provided with copies of the minutes. I had not signed those minutes. Copies of recording devices were not provided. They had been destroyed. They minutes were inaccurate. I agree that their minutes system seems unfair. Did you have anyone accompanying you at the meetings who can verify your assertion that the minutes were inaccurate? Again, were you invited to have anyone accompanying you? I did not have any companion. I think that was the reason why they destroyed the tapes because I raised issues during the hearing. I was told to bring someone if I wished.

Please note that the system by which I was accused of taking money for my own again was defectives on several accassions.

My case was accepted my the tribunal. Copies of my ET1 were sent to my former employer and to the ACAS.

I hope to get as much help as I can get from you members. I would like to know how to prepare my self for the hearing.

I would like to request for a step by step guide on how to get through.
What is likely to be the next step?
How do I present my statement?
Do I get straight to the point of why I think it was unfair dismissal? Depending on your answers to my questions above, it does sound as if you might have a case for unfair dismissal. This is based on the idea I have formed that your disciplinary did not follow the required disciplinary process. However, I am conscious that you need to answer the questions above..... I have answered the questions. I did not realise you had edited this post. I’ve noticed as I was going through all the posts

Some one please give me a true picture of how events unfold during those hearing? I'll try to do this as the first post grows!
I appreciated your help and support everyone.

jobbingmusician

Hi Mosdee. Just to say I'm incredibly busy until Monday - I have seen this but won't be able to do anything with it till then!