Employment Tribunal Help

mosdee

hi jobbingmusician vbmenu_register("postmenu_19678603", true);

Could you please advise if I need to mention anything from my former employer's response to my claim during the appeal hearing? They disagreed with the salary I indicated on my claim form. They marked a different figure which is not correct.

Could you advise on how to prepare for the case discussion. A step by step if possible, will be appreciated.

jobbingmusician

I'm sorry to say I have never actually been to a case discussion. What I would do if called is to start putting my bundle together, complete with statement, and make it clear that the statement to the court might change depending on what comes up at the case discussion.

For example, if you are disputing the salary they state it would be useful to include some salary slips and/or bank statements. I assume they did give you salary slips? (I am guessing that if you just provided bank statements they might dispute how much was commission).

AverageJoe_4

Go to ACAS website.

mosdee

Hello jobbingmusician, hello everyone,

I thought I would make some update on this post.
I attended my appeal hearing last week.

The panel basically the panel asked me to state why I appealed against my dismissal. No quetsions were asked. They (panel) listened then told me that they would not made their decision on that day. They said they would notify me of the outcome by Monday or Tuesday the following week which would be 23rd or 24th this month. I was asked to leave. But then the person who was taking notes asked me to wait in the next room to give the interviewer a chance to think of any questions she might have.

After a few minutes, I was asked to get back to the hearing room.
I was asked to give a reason of the missing transaction.
I was also asked to confirm the reason for my appeal. (a bit of confusion there, I thought they were trying to trick about something). I was then asked to leave.

The notes taker was the HR assistant manager who during the investigation wrote to me that I did not have a valid grievance.


I was not asked to sign the minutes and I did not get copies.

Like I said before, I have a case discussion in a couple of weeks. I have tried to get a get a solicitor but I haven't been able to find one.

Please moneysavers, could some one advise me on how best to prepare for the case discussion management?

If I find a solicitor, would it be possible to let the solicitor deal with the case discussion considering the date for the discussion was arranged already?

(I realised that the representatives could hold a case discussion on phone with the chair person from ET)

jobbingmusician

mosdee wrote: »

Hello jobbingmusician, hello everyone,

I thought I would make some update on this post.
I attended my appeal hearing last week.

The panel basically the panel asked me to state why I appealed against my dismissal. Did you make it clear what the basis for your appeal was? One valid basis which you mentioned earlier would be because they did not notify you that the original meeting to which they summoned you was in fact a disciplinary hearing. Did you take anyone with you to the appeal? What they may have been trying to do was to establish that your appeal was not simply a re-hearing of your disciplinary. No quetsions were asked. They (panel) listened then told me that they would not made their decision on that day. They said they would notify me of the outcome by Monday or Tuesday the following week which would be 23rd or 24th this month. I was asked to leave. But then the person who was taking notes asked me to wait in the next room to give the interviewer a chance to think of any questions she might have. I think this is pretty standard, and sensible (for example, the panel might think of extra questions after conferring, assuming there was more than one of them).

After a few minutes, I was asked to get back to the hearing room.
I was asked to give a reason of the missing transaction. Hmmm. Not sure they were following best practice here, as this sounds a bit like re-hearing the disciplinary. What do YOU think their motive for asking this was? For example, they may have been trying to establish that you had been given adequate opportunity to defend yourself, or that you had had an opportunity to defend yourself with a representative there (assuming that you took one to the appeal).
I was also asked to confirm the reason for my appeal. (a bit of confusion there, I thought they were trying to trick about something). I was then asked to leave.

The notes taker was the HR assistant manager who during the investigation wrote to me that I did not have a valid grievance. How big is the company? This would be acceptable practice in a small company although ideally it would be better for any company to produce someone new.


I was not asked to sign the minutes and I did not get copies. Have you asked them for a copy? It would not be normal for copies to be available immediately after a meeting. Write to them and ask them for a copy! (They don't have to give you one, but they may do so to demonstrate good practice).

Like I said before, I have a case discussion in a couple of weeks. I have tried to get a get a solicitor but I haven't been able to find one.

Please moneysavers, could some one advise me on how best to prepare for the case discussion management? Come on folks, I'm no expert on case management.

If I find a solicitor, would it be possible to let the solicitor deal with the case discussion considering the date for the discussion was arranged already?

(I realised that the representatives could hold a case discussion on phone with the chair person from ET)

Hope this helps....

mosdee

Thank you for your reply and advice.
I was on my own. I did not have any representative.

I did state reasons of my appeal. I also stated my disappointment about the unreasonable delays they have made right from suspension to dismissal. They took 55 days to respond to my appeal.

- I notified the panel that the allegations were wrong.
- Investiagton was not done correctly
-Evidence was weak and not clear
- Mystery shopper's report was incorrect (I indicated proof of that)
- Interviewers' behavour was not propriate throughout the course of investigation (I stated actions by interviewer)

The company is very big with more than 2000 staff, 200 staff from where I was based.

I desperately need a solicitor on a no win no fee basis. I qualify for legal aid but then solicitors that I have contacted they said they were not registered for legal aid.
Is there major concerns I would need to be aware of with regards to No Win No Fee solicitors?

jobbingmusician

It sounds as if you potentially made a good case for why an appeal should be heard, then.

I know little about no win no fee arrangements (except that sometimes the solicitors cream too much off the fee if they DO win). I think that if you contact your local legal aid centre or CAB, they will have lists of legal aid solicitors (or if you google legal aid centre and chase up one in your area, they may be able to represent you directly).

However, don't panic - it would be nice to have one but it is not necessary to have a solicitor to win an employment tribunal. Conversely, it can do nothing but help your case to get some advice from a CAB or advice centre. Whereabouts in the country are you?

mosdee

I appreciate your time and advise jobbingmusician,

I thought I would represent my self but then I realised a weakness within my self. I live in North London area.

I get frustrated when they say things that did not happen. For example, during the appeal hearing. The panel asked me to if my appeal was based on the mystery shopper after I had provided issues that I believe were the main reason. That got me frustrated!
I indicated that the alleged mystery shopper's transaction were actually onto the sales report. They asked me again what happened to the mystery shopper's transactions. That frustrated me too. I had indicated to them that the mystery shopper got all the information wrong.

For those reasons I felt it would be better for me to get a representative to put my points across properly.

I have failed to complete my statement. I have so much information flowing inside my head. I also do not know what to expect when I go for the case discussion management.

I'm waiting for the the outcome of the appeal hearing which they said I would get Today or Tomorrow.

If they (former employer) try to reduce the charge, would it be possible to raise a different claim and cancel the current claim?


vbmenu_register("postmenu_19984545", true);

jobbingmusician

To start at the end of your post, no, it would not be possible to cancel your current claim and make a different one - I believe the tribunal would judge your new claim as being out of time. You can, however, reflect in your statement to the tribunal things which have changed, or which you see differently, since your original application to them. This is especially relevant is it seems to me that you were not given the opportunity to appeal against your dismissal until after you had submitted the tribunal application, so of course things would change.

I can totally relate to your difficulty in answering questions from your former employer, especially if they already know that they can 'wind you up' effectively. However, there really is no alternative to putting together a detailed statement for the tribunal. You would have to do this even if you have the most expensive solicitor in the world! - although of course if you paid someone enough they would spend hours with you sorting out your thoughts and putting things down on paper.

If you keep on niggling away at your statement, you should be able to get things down in a reasonably coherent way. Work at it on the computer and add things as they occur to you. (If this matter is affecting your sleep, keep a notepad by the bed for noting things in the middle of the night!) Then, when your employer asks you questions at the tribunal, you will be able to refer them to paragraphs in your statement.

ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WHAT YOU ARE CONCENTRATING ON IS THE FACT THAT THEY DID NOT HANDLE YOUR DISCIPLINARY CORRECTLY. You are trying to illustrate (from what you have said in previous posts) that they did not tell you it was a disciplinary or give you time to prepare for it, they used questionable evidence from the mystery shopper which you were able to disprove (I think this is what you have said?) and the investigator's manner was not appropriate in the interview (I think this last may be more difficult for you to demonstrate). I think it might help you in thinking through if you go through two stages of discussion in your statement

1. EVEN IF I HAD BEEN GUILTY, I was not treated fairly by my employer, who failed to conduct a proper disciplinary procedure, and did not explain to me that the meeting I was asked to attend was part of a disciplinary investigation or hearing, or give me the opportunity for representation. They had ignored a previous grievance (you said 'The issues I raised were about my contract before the allegations. I wrote 3 letters but I never had a response. I phoned the manager to request for a response. I had 2 meetings with him but never had a full response. He made promises but later changed his mind. He warned me that if I raised a grievance and got to the second stage then I would lose my job. He said that in the presence of a union rep who had been invited by the manager him self. ' - what has happened to this union rep, by the way?)

2. Because the disciplinary was not conducted properly, you were unsure what the allegations against you were (assuming you feel that you can argue this) and so you were unable to defend yourself properly.

Does this sound a useful approach?

mosdee

jobbingmusician wrote: »

To start at the end of your post, no, it would not be possible to cancel your current claim and make a different one - I believe the tribunal would judge your new claim as being out of time. You can, however, reflect in your statement to the tribunal things which have changed, or which you see differently, since your original application to them. This is especially relevant is it seems to me that you were not given the opportunity to appeal against your dismissal until after you had submitted the tribunal application, so of course things would change.

I can totally relate to your difficulty in answering questions from your former employer, especially if they already know that they can 'wind you up' effectively. However, there really is no alternative to putting together a detailed statement for the tribunal. You would have to do this even if you have the most expensive solicitor in the world! - although of course if you paid someone enough they would spend hours with you sorting out your thoughts and putting things down on paper.

If you keep on niggling away at your statement, you should be able to get things down in a reasonably coherent way. Work at it on the computer and add things as they occur to you. (If this matter is affecting your sleep, keep a notepad by the bed for noting things in the middle of the night!) Then, when your employer asks you questions at the tribunal, you will be able to refer them to paragraphs in your statement.

ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WHAT YOU ARE CONCENTRATING ON IS THE FACT THAT THEY DID NOT HANDLE YOUR DISCIPLINARY CORRECTLY. You are trying to illustrate (from what you have said in previous posts) that they did not tell you it was a disciplinary or give you time to prepare for it, they used questionable evidence from the mystery shopper which you were able to disprove (I think this is what you have said?) and the investigator's manner was not appropriate in the interview (I think this last may be more difficult for you to demonstrate). I think it might help you in thinking through if you go through two stages of discussion in your statement

1. EVEN IF I HAD BEEN GUILTY, I was not treated fairly by my employer, who failed to conduct a proper disciplinary procedure, and did not explain to me that the meeting I was asked to attend was part of a disciplinary investigation or hearing, or give me the opportunity for representation. They had ignored a previous grievance (you said 'The issues I raised were about my contract before the allegations. I wrote 3 letters but I never had a response. I phoned the manager to request for a response. I had 2 meetings with him but never had a full response. He made promises but later changed his mind. He warned me that if I raised a grievance and got to the second stage then I would lose my job. He said that in the presence of a union rep who had been invited by the manager him self. ' - what has happened to this union rep, by the way?)

2. Because the disciplinary was not conducted properly, you were unsure what the allegations against you were (assuming you feel that you can argue this) and so you were unable to defend yourself properly.

Does this sound a useful approach?

Thank you very much. That sounds a good approach. Indeed they discovered my weakness. So they used it as a weapon.

With regards to the union rep, I contacted him when the allegations were raised against me but then he said he was going on holiday. He kept telling me off because I did not update him of what had happened after the first meeting we had about my contract. I did not because he had been invited by the general manager. I didn't even know he had been invited. I was surprise to see him in the meeting.

I'm wondering if you would have a few minutes to look at my story privately so you can advise where I might have gone wrong or messed up. I know you said not to send you private messages. I am just stuck. Like I said I thought I would handle the case my self, but then as time goes by I lost that confidence.

If that's ok with you, I'll message you a more detailed story to put you in a clear picture. It's ok if you have not got enough time. What you have advised me about is more than I expected from this forum.