Suitable punishments for a 6 year old. Ideas please!! Anything considered!

blue_monkey_2

Nicki,

Thank you for your long reply, it really is very much appreciated. Because I have not been to any support groups yet and because this woman comes to visit - who knows nothing (she has been sent by the Childrens Services by the County Council - is that the same as you mentioned) - it is so hard because the only place I am able to turn for advice is this forum. I''ve been tols to try the cards - which I am sure DS does not need as he is fine with verbal instructions, he gets a bit disorientated if his routine is out of whack so we try to adjust to it. Do you know what are the visual cards are called? I thought I might get some anyway. Yes, my son does speak but the school have told the childrens centre his speech is not as it should be at this age so I am not sure how behind he is. He makes a lot of noises such as squealing and I tend to ignore those but the HV (let's call her that for ease of reading) told me I have to tell him not to do it. The thing is, I do not notice and I feel a bit mean if he is happy telling him to stop just because he is making a noise. I feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

In regards to the Art, I never throw anything away, I think I might have mis typed, it would be so much easier to sit in a room and explain rather than hit the post button and walk away, LOL, but I do keep everything - but she is the one who will throw it away. I usually unscrew it and say it is fine but she will have none of it and it goes back in the bin. In the end with the book I photocopied some pages to put them in the right way after she had gone to bed and in the morning she insisted that the REST was photocopied so 'that all the pages looked the same' (as in the same kind of ink. If I could post it on here I would. My friends said I should keep it as it will be worth millions when she because a best selling author. It was a good 16 pages that she sat and wrote out, it was the Xmas story and she remembered it all from memory of doing it at school. Because she is so bright and so focused on what she wants to do it is hard to imagine there is something 'wrong' or 'not working as it should' does that make sense?

She moved schools and her teacher is actually the Senco so if there was a problem she would have noticed but they have told me she has fitted into the school perfectly and it is like she has been there as long as the other kids.

I've tried doing the thing with the cards, this is why I bought them, but I have had another idea that while she is doing it I could sit beside her and 'read' a magazine and maybe I could slowly start to help her or suggest things to her. I like the idea about the game as well. More recently we was playing headbanz and she went off on one and so I took everything away put it in the box and then put it away saying I did not play with children who were not playing nicely. DS is not that interested in playing at all, he is more interested in setting all the pieces out in a pattern or playing with whatever on the gamebaord and moving the peices. Can you tell me what games you have found the best to play for ASD children, please.

Your information was really, really helpful so thank you so much. As I say, it is really hard when you do not have anyone else to speak to to get advice or ideas on what is the best thing to do. It has made me realise how much I need this new support group and I am going to MAKE time to go each week in the New Year whereas before I was going to just pop in every now and then.

blue_monkey_2

I remember when I was at school and I did some work with clay. I did not like my own results - I was 7 - so I took something off the display and took home. My dad then marched me back down the school when he saw my perfect stegosuarus - it has someones elses name on the bottom. Doh!! LOL!

laurenjs88

Hi Blue Monkey,

I havent read all of the thread just the first page but just wanted to say you do whatever you think is right!

The HV doenst know JS about and your family, they pop in for what an hour or 2 a month if your lucky and tell you how to run your household.

You daughter is probably just being a demanding 6yr old, pushing her luck and trying it on at home, You cant push the teachers like you can push your mum. Maybe she does need a good smacked bum. It wont do any lasting damage, physical or psychological. I was smacked as a kid and hold no scars, do not go out and beat people and have relitively high morals. If my daughter needs a smack when she's older she will get one. shes only 1 at the moment.

foreign_correspondent

Nicki wrote: »

Oh, I think you've misunderstood me! What I meant was that if she does show you something she has made (rather than just throw it away immediately) that maybe you should just overlook any defects and praise it to high heavens, because the slightest hint of criticism will mean it hits the bin, and there will be other opportunities to put right any bits which have gone wrong on the project, without ever pointing them out in relation to that piece of work.

If the child has decided to bin it, I personally wouldn't fish it out and have it on display, as the child would probably just see it as a constant reminder of his failure rather than being in any way flattered by the attention!

I agree 100% - did it really matter that she had stuck it together back to front - you picking up on this re-inforces her feelings that if something isnt perfect it is rubbish - I would have praised how fab it was and not even mentioned that, she is self-critical enough as it is!

blue_monkey_2

I don't know did it? She makes lots of books and used to get them back to front and I taught her how they should be made. She then made this one back to front so I told her.

If she reads incorrectly I correct that too and help her with her words. Am I not supposed to be helping her get something done correctly. So how do I help her learn or should I be leaving everything done incorrectly and let the school deal with it. So am I supposed to be helping her learn at home, or not, as I am getting a tad confused now.

Do you thing I picked it up and said it was rubbish and back to front? No, I picked it up, read it through and said it was wonderful and amazing - as I should of done because it was. However, she had done something that she had previously learnt to do the right way so I said I would help her fix it. I ignored all the spelling mistakes - iof I was that critical I would have pointed those out, however, that will come in time she had already learnt how to make the book and had done this one wrong so I told her.

So this is it, I don't get it. Am I not supposed to say anthing if she reverts back to doing something incorrectly? When she does her writing she gets a tick from the teacher if it is correct, if it is wrong the teacher corrects it for her. So is this wrong too? And if not why is it different to what I have done? Seriously? How do you teach if you cannot tell them what they have done wrong? If you child learns to ride a bike do you put trainer wheels back on if they fall off? No, you encourange them to get back on and do it correctly.

And this is why I give up. FC - your comments are all negative towards me too and are actually not much help and it was this I came here for, to deal with her negative behaviour I am I am dealing with in this thread. You make it sound like I am a !!!!! towards her. You do not live in this house to see the positive praise I give her day in and day out over everything she does from eating nicely, using the loo, getting dressed to the great work she does, even walking home from school nicely.... and tonight I received a punch in the stomach because I did not have a chocolate bar left for her. And this was after she had eaten party food at school too. And then later on I got punched in the leg and my boot thrown at me because she wanted more food and I said no as it was almost bedtime and explained her food had to go down. It is this behaviour that I want to stop as it is unacceptable and I speak to her in a calm and nice way to receive a punch. After she did this she got sent to bed!!

I have said before to other people - I wonder at times just who has the problems as my son is often much better behaved than she is and he is the one who is AS!

Anyway, it's been a long day. I'll post back sometime tomorrow as I cannot do with another moaning at after being physically attacked by my child again tonight - that was probably my fault as well.

Nicki

Don't feel bad bluemonkey. It's really hard to get things right when posting on the internet to people you don't know. I am positive noone is trying to upset you, we're all just offering our views for you to think about and take what is useful and discard the rest. If there are particular posters who are getting up your nose on this thread, stick them on ignore until the thread has run its course, then rehabilitate them!

By the cards, I take it you mean PECS? These are pictures which help to scaffold language development. You can also use them to make timetables and sequence strips so that children understand the expectations of them. My DD has never found them particularly helpful tbh, but a lot of kids on the spectrum do. She tends to use sign language (makaton) to help her communicate. There is a really nice cbeebies programme called "Something Special" which would help you learn a few signs if you want to try this out. If you google PECS symbols there are also some free resources on the internet, but you'll need ultimately to buy a commercial package or have a very willing speech therapist if you want to go down this route. Steer clear of ebay as there are lots of rip off artists pretending to sell PECS on there apparently.

I would be nervous though about taking advice from a "HV" who isn't qualified in autism. She may well end up causing more problems than she helps with. Is there noone in your area who has the necessary expertise? What did CAMHS or the CDT say when they diagnosed your son? Were they not able to put you in touch with someone more knowledgeable for family support?

With your daughter, don't assume the worst. Whilst she may have some traits, she doesn't necessarily have enough of them to be diagnosed as on the spectrum. As I've said lots of us who aren't have a few little quirks which seen in isolation could lead you to think we were. And there are plenty of people in public life (some of whom are very successful) who are married with families, good jobs, etc but who also have Aspergers or high functioning autism. I am always amazed by how many of my friends with ASD children tell me that with hindsight they realise one of their parents also had it, and these are very successful people in their careers usually, just seen at the time as a tad eccentric!

You could try this forum for some more specific advice www.asd-forum.org.uk I used to post on there quite a bit in the early days though I must confess I don't bother to read or post there much these days. There is some good advice and info on there and most people are quite friendly and non-judgmental but be warned there are a few not-quite-trolls on there too, who are adults on the spectrum and who can be quite unpleasant to parents who they think are falling down on the job. Once you work out who they are though, you can decide to read anything they post in the light of their own agendas, and you might find the parents views helpful.

blue_monkey_2

Actually this comment has annoyed me

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I agree 100% - did it really matter that she had stuck it together back to front - you picking up on this re-inforces her feelings that if something isnt perfect it is rubbish - I would have praised how fab it was and not even mentioned that, she is self-critical enough as it is!

Have you bothered to read anything I have written (and yes I know it is long but so are the problems) or have you skimmed through and picked out the bits you want. I've not come here to be critisised I have asked for help. most other people would have smacked their kids now with what I have to go through day in and day out - not as a rare occurance - but I am asking for help.

I wanted to apologise to everyone else for being narky. I've already accepted what I do and have to do I do not need comments such as 'I agree 100% blah blah blah while making out my behaviour is totally negative towards my child and this is why she is like what she is. FC - you have made it sound like I took the book off her and said it was crap and that she had done it wrong! You was not in this house to know that and you are far from wrong. And comments like this are getting making me cross because everyone assumes that if your child is nasty and aggressive it is because you are negative towards them and make them so. Come to think of it you sound like my HV who used to say the same about my son - until the doc sent a letter to me mentioning his ASD and suddenly came the acceptance he has 'special needs'.

And your 'assumption' is so far from the truth you would not even believe as you was not in this house to witness it. And this is why I have had enough and this is why I asked for help. I am tired of being a punchbag for my kids when they cannot get their own way and this is why I felt a short sharp shock with a smack would do the world of good so she can understand how it feels. However, before I get to that level I have asked for help.

She might be self critical but she also should be able to be told that something she could once do correctly she had done wrong this time - otherwise what was the point in teaching her to do it right? Sometimes in life she is going to have to be told that something she has done right before has not been done correctly. I cannot walk over with cotton wall shoes forever else she will get nowhere in life. Sure if I had only been critical of the book but this was not, it was an off hand comment at the end of a sentence.

You know what, I am tired of trying to explain it here, I am sure half of it is not even being read by the people citisising. I am postive towards my children whether you choose to believe it or not - the word document someone attached was a bit Americanised but we already use loads of these - you have to if you have a child with AS who is constantly demanding praise because of the marble run/train track he has built even if it does not work correctly. If you had a child, or know of a child who is AS then you would understand this.

However, I will not tolerate the violence and as I said in my opening post she will be punished for this if it continues and this is what I asked for - what would be suitable for a child of this age. Tonight after being violent towards me for a 3rd time - she was sent to bed early, right or wrong I do not care tbh, that was her punishment for her violence.

You know, there is only so much nice you can do when you being kind and nice is rewarded by a punch and kick. Lucky me right. If only I was more positive I might not get that punch, kick and things thrown at me. My life is a bundle of bloody joy and I am so looking forward to the school holidays. I sometimes wish I could run away from this as far as damn possible and not come back - and that is how bad it gets on days like today (which started out so well). Oh, and yes, she had been at a school party but tiredness is NO excuse for being violent. And it is this I want dealing with and not even the money thing stopped her being violent.

Another thing though, if it was my husband/boyfriend being violent towards me in this way the police could take him away - I am supposed to endure this day in day out and keep smiling. All anyone can advise me is to 'try and be more positive and say nice things about the stuff they have done'. Praising them all day as I have been since they could breath has not stopped them turning violent and aggressive - and I am just a little bit tired of it all.

Again, sorry, it has been a long day and was doing OK until that last message but I thought it better to get it out somewhere then get cranky with the kids in the morning. Tomorrow is another day and all that.

Jelly79

Give rewards, praise, spend time with your daughter (all things that you seem to be doing). BUT never, ever, back down on anything. If she eventually gets what she wants through her behaviour, even if it takes her hours, she will not stop. You don't have to smack her but you have to have an element of calm 'cruelty' to all punishments. For example, If she doesn't have respect for toys (or tinsel!), put her in a room with absolutely nothing to do, make it clear to her what she is being punished for - that 'if you act like a little girl with no respect for things then I won't let you near anything'. Always act calm, you are in control. Don't feel bad about anything. Take all her toys from her if need be, stop desert or any treats, don't let her watch TV at all if she doesn't respect you.
The main thing is don't give up. It may be a hard slog preventing her from doing what she wants, but she WILL get the message eventually. By all means carry on with rewards, but if it is all rewards and no punishment you are pandering to what she wants.
Remember how ever hard it seems to deal with her now, if you don't she will be many times worse when she is older.
Good luck

blue_monkey_2

Hi Nicki,

My message just got deleted, I hate it when that happens.

CAMHS bouced Ryan 4 times - each time a different excuse but the doc showed me a letter which basically said they had their funding cut and so they had to cut back on who they could see. When we moved my docs is in town so I have asked him to refer me to the one in town. I have not heard anything yet though (this was September). I have the letter from Child Developement Clinic which details everything he has - this is the diagnosis I guess. But they have now told me they will not see me and have written to a different peaditrician nearer were I live now asking if they will see me. I am still in the same health area but it just feels like they want him moved of their list (funding?) So after waiting a year for the Comms Clinic I have been taken off the list and they have written to one nearer town to ask if they will see him instead. It is just waiting, waiting and waiting. Right at this minute I'd happily pay for it to get it sorted out.

Heck, just deleted again but I had this bit saved. No time to rewrite it now as DS is up at 5am, will have to try to get back on tomorrow to say what I was going to say.

Nicki

blue_monkey wrote: »

CAMHS bouced Ryan 4 times - each time a different excuse but the doc showed me a letter which basically said they had their funding cut and so they had to cut back on who they could see. When we moved my docs is in town so I have asked him to refer me to the one in town. I have not heard anything yet though (this was September). I have the letter from Child Developement Clinic which details everything he has - this is the diagnosis I guess. But they have now told me they will not see me and have written to a different peaditrician nearer were I live now asking if they will see me. I am still in the same health area but it just feels like they want him moved of their list (funding?) So after waiting a year for the Comms Clinic I have been taken off the list and they have written to one nearer town to ask if they will see him instead. It is just waiting, waiting and waiting. Right at this minute I'd happily pay for it to get it sorted out.

That is just appalling!

What I've noticed in our area is that parents need to shout loudly to get services for their children. You won't really be told what's on offer, nor will help be given automatically based on the needs of the child.

In your shoes my first step would be to see the GP and really lay it on the line that you cannot cope without the necessary support. If your son gets freaked out by strange places, take him with you and let him have a meltdown in the surgery. Burst into tears, and tell him you only get a few hours sleep a night, your marriage is breaking up, you're at the end of your tether, etc. Basically whatever it takes to make the GP feel sufficiently motivated to make calls and ensure that someone takes responsibilty for your son's care plan.

Next if you don't know anyone in the area already, try to find as many local parents as you can with children with special needs/learning difficulties. It doesn't have to be specifically autism, though that would help. Pump connections at the support group, maybe try your local special schools if you have any, or speak to the SENCO at your children's schools and ask to be put in touch with other parents. Find out from them what services they either get, or don't get but know about. Then speak to either the medical team looking after your child, if the GP has kicked !!! enough by then, or the Children with Disabilities Team (who are part of local Social Services) and ask to be referred to relevant services. If your son isn't at school yet (sorry can't remember how old he is) ask to be referred to Portage. They should at least have people with some training about the range of special needs, hopefully including autism, and will come out and work with you in the home. See if there are nurseries or playschools in the area with special needs support (ideally inclusive ones which also take mainstream kids). Their staff can be a fount of knowledge. If your son doesn't have a statement of SEN yet, contact the local educational psychologists and get that ball rolling. Once you have provision on your statement (eg speech therapy) someone will have to get their finger out and organise its provision for you. You don't have to wait for your child to start school to do this. If you haven't already done so, apply for Disability Living Allowance, and if you get this and qualify based on the other criteria, also Carers Allowance. This will enable you to buy in some more professional help (there are people out there who will give professional advice privately). Also consider applying to Childrens Services for direct payments to pay for some on the day respite for you and your OH (so you can at least recharge your batteries when you've had a tough few days).

I suspect that although your main problem is currently dealing with your daughter, that if you can take some of the stress out of your life to do with lack of provision and appropriate advice for your son, that you will find your daughter easier to cope with. Also when you have experienced professionals coming in and spending time with you as a family, they will pick up on the family dynamics and will offer advice holisitically, not just about your son. They will also be good people to bounce ideas off about whether your DD is also on the spectrum. Tbh based on what you have posted so far, if she is she clearly copes pretty well in school and is not unhappy or stressed. For that reason, I wonder what benefit if any there is in having a formal diagnosis. I would be inclined to wait until you think she may be having difficulties and need more support, as firstly it will be easier to get a diagnosis if there is a demonstrable "problem", and secondly she will be more likely to get support if she is having problems and has just been diagnosed, than if she has an old diagnosis but has never needed extra support before.

Apologies if this is all wildly off topic, or if you have already pursued all these avenues. I'm just so shocked that they would give you a diagnosis then cut you loose with nothing based only on funding :mad:

If you ever want to PM me rather than post the whole of your business on the open forum, where as you've found some of the views can be less than sympathetic, please do feel free to do so.