Private Parking Tickets discussion

trisontana

The advice is that you ignore. Debt collectors are just private citizens with no special powers and cannot do anything to you. And, by the way, please don't call it a "fine", it's not , it's an unenforceable invoice.

Coupon-mad

kirstles77 wrote: »

Help! Any advice?

My boyfriend works as a security officer in the local NHS Hospital and recently received a parking ticket from a private company...

Enough information! Ignore it.

Ignore all private parking tickets, you wasted your time with those letters but do keep them in case you want to report the company for harassment in the end. Certainly don't pay!

kirstles77 wrote: »

Has anyone else had this happen to them?

Errr...yes, thousands!

Everyone on the parking board is in your shoes, or has been (expect those cases involving a proper ticket from the Council or Police). Here are all the current threads, you are certainly not alone:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

First read the top thread, showing you typical standard letter-chains that PPCs use.

kirstles77 wrote: »

If the ticket is not enforceable are they entitled to sell the debt to a debt collection agency?

They don't 'sell the debt' but there's nothing illegal about them writing to you or getting someone else to write (as long as it doesn't constitute harassment - which in lots of cases it actually does).

They provide a debt collector with a list of people who haven't paid them - but none of those people owe them any 'debt'. The debt collector just sends out standard letters, as shown on our thread, to all the victims and hopes that some mugs take them seriously. If so then the debt collector gets a percentage of the payments made by the mugs. It's all a business to both parties but there's no debt in the first place, no credit agreement, no money really outstanding.

It's a scam, forget it. Honestly, from first-hand experience I can tell you it's no more difficult to ignore these letters than it is to delete a series of phishing emails. Stop worrying and start ignoring the scammers.

Sarah51

What could someone do if when parking in a private car park, when all the shops associated with this car park are closed, and stay longer than the allocated 2 hours - The £50 fine for half an hour extra when the shops are closed seems very excessive - also is it legal for the DVLA to give out your personal information to these people - thats one I'm taking up with them too

trisontana

Sarah51 wrote: »

What could someone do if when parking in a private car park, when all the shops associated with this car park are closed, and stay longer than the allocated 2 hours - The £50 fine for half an hour extra when the shops are closed seems very excessive - also is it legal for the DVLA to give out your personal information to these people - thats one I'm taking up with them too

Please, this is not a FINE it's an invoice. But you have hit the nail on the head. Civil law states that one private citizen cannot punish another private citizen., they can only claim for the actual material loss suffered by the "injured party". As no loss was injured then precisely nothing can be claimed by the parking company.

muckybutt

Old news but still interesting for ones not familiar with how it works http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=4984

king_chino86

Does it matter that the "warning" sign said the following:

"Parking in this car park is free of charge if vehicle displays valid permit in the windscreen.

NON PERMIT HOLDERS. £60 fee per visit. Payment to be made within 14 days of issue of a praking charge notice.

Patrons Exempt

By parking in this carpark the user/registered keeper contractually agrre witht he above terms and conditions"

Sounds like I have entered into a contractual agreement to pay them £60 for use of their parking facility.

Im not a lawyer but know silence is not a form of acceptence in contract law, but by me parking there would this action accept their terms of contract and make me liable?

Coupon-mad

I am no lawyer either but I have read tons about private parking, including the odd case which went to Small Claims. I can see what that sign pathetically attempts to do but it fails to create a contract IMHO so I would not be worried if I had parked there and ignored a bogus PCN.

A few points about their wording:

- the registered keeper cannot have possibly entered into any alleged contract unless they can prove that the rk and the driver were one and the same person that day, on that occasion. 'The user' doesn't mean anything and does not communicate who they are trying to pin a contract on either. So no contract with rk and no contract with this mythical 'user', so no win in Small claims!

- the amount of the 'fee' (as they call it) would have to be fair and clear up front. If put before a judge then the positioning and visibility of the signs, clarity of wording, size of sign, lighting of signage at night etc. would all be arguments against this 'fee' as well as arguing it's an illegal penalty dressed up as a fee. It's not enough just to say 'there was a sign'...

- It contradicts itself by saying on the one hand you have to display a permit but on the other hand you are exempt if you are a 'patron' (they don't say 'patrons with a permit on display'). They also don't establish the question of - who are these undefined 'patrons' and how do they establish which car does belong to a patron? Patrons of which establishment and for how long and when (is it OK if you are a 'patron' of B&Q every Sunday but parked this time on a Friday?). Sounds daft but their sign doesn't make this clear by a very vague 'patrons are exempt'. A lot of people may consider themselves a patron (you could even argue everyone there is a 'patron' of the car park, which is true).

- It doesn't say that the driver has to 'continually display' a permit - so you could have displayed it when leaving the car and that's enough, even if later their parking goon comes along and [STRIKE]shakes the car[/STRIKE] notices that the permit has fallen down. And a vehicle can't 'display a permit' anyway!

- To create a contract I understand there has to be a 'consideration' (i.e. they provide something in exchange for you paying them this 'fee'). If the PPC don't own the car park then - unless they have a superbly-worded contract with the landowner - they have no leg to stand on as they would not be able to show the judge there was any consideration.


Usual scenario, you get several debt collector scary letters, then they throw in the towel.

Worst case scenario, they actually take you to small claims court. In that extremely unlikely event, you could get a robust defence from pepipoo.com (see previous links to that site, in particular the 'parking and decrim' forum). Cases with a full pepipoo defence have only been won or the PPC has given up.

So, the sign is rubbish IMHO and you are safe to ignore their letters in the absence of Court papers, in which case you would win anyway. PPCs know that and so they rely on threats alone in the vast majority of cases, honestly.

Don't get spooked by their threatograms and you'll be fine.

AlexisV

... plus what is the contractual offer?

"No parking beyond xxhrs. If you park over xxhrs you agree to pay a parking charge of £xyz" does not constitute an offer.

PatriciaWaters

Hi. I have read that you should not respond to private parking fine invoices. I was parking - and shopping - in a well-known supermarket and had overstayed the three hours limit - which is prominently displayed. They say in their letter that they only charge so that there customers have parking spaces. There were plenty of places available. Do I still have to pay?

shortchanged_2

PatriciaWaters wrote: »

Hi. I have read that you should not respond to private parking fine invoices. I was parking - and shopping - in a well-known supermarket and had overstayed the three hours limit - which is prominently displayed. They say in their letter that they only charge so that there customers have parking spaces. There were plenty of places available. Do I still have to pay?

No. Just ignore everything they send you and DON'T contact them at all.