Private Parking Tickets discussion

zebedee70

Had a bit of bad news today - if anyone has any suggestion, they are gratefully received...
I got myself a private parking ticket in Crawley (on some converted waste land), back in February - in this case, one of my front wheels was on the white line (I'd lined up next to an adjacent car, slightly askew - but not severe enough to prevent anyone from using the space, and in any case, the carpark was 30% empty, so it was not a case of the land owner losing any income). The parking charge notice suggested I was parked across two bays, and the fine was £100 - less if I paid in under 7 days - so the normal format for private parking companies.

My issue was that I was in a rental car at the time. I knew from this forum that the PPC would get the owner details from the DVLA, send National Car Rental the invoice (no doubt disguised as a fine), which they would pay up, and then charge the fine & a handling fee to the credit card I'd used to rent the vehicle...

No real choice other than to write to the PPC - in this case, I provided the photo I'd taken, and telling them that I would not be paying their charge.
I got a letter back in about a week, refuting my 'appeal', and giving me a further 28 days to pay the £100 (again, reduced if I paid in 7 or less).

At this point, I figured that they know I'm the driver, so they will continue to deal with me directly. I didn't hear anything for the next couple of months...

Until I checked my credit card bill today. I found a charge from National Car Rental, for £162. I called them to dispute the charge (although I was already suspecting the worst). It took them a couple of minutes to find the details - they'd been presented with a parking 'fine' from the PPC, which they'd paid, and then passed the charge to me, along with an admin fee.

I know from the rental contract that it's normally the case to pay fines - you can understand that they would do this for any legal ones which drivers had ignored. However, I made the point that the invoice wasn't a fine, and was not from a legal body such as a council or the police. I told them that I'd dealt with the PPC directly (I hadn't informed National up front on this, as I thought it would make little difference), and that I thought the charge was unscrupulous. I asked the National customer service girl if National were happy just to pay anything presented to them by anyone, and if they were happy passing this on the their 'valued customers'. She told me that they paid ALL parking fines (that word again!), whether from a council or police or a private firm. They would not be refunding my £162. If I wanted, I could email my issue to their query team, who would appeal the fine for me. At this point, I was probably a little more obviously indignant that I should have been. I can only guess how that would proceed - they might review the evidence, and suggest that the charge was fair. They might write to the PPC to challenge the charge - you might expect the PPC to refute the appeal once again. Would they ever take the PPC to small claims, AFTER they paid the charge? Not likely. And they made themselves a tidy little sum from the fee they added for their admin time.

So my situation would appear to be that the PPC has made its £100, National has made itself £62, and I have a charge to my corporate Amex for the bill. And I have to pay personal charges to my corporate Amex bill, or I ultimately end up with additional non-payment charges, and a whole lot of trouble from my employer.

Anyone know if there is any redress? For example, could I go to Amex and refute National's charges, even though I signed a rental agreement which allows them to re-charge any parking charges to me? Can they legally do this to a corporate card (although my name is on it, I work for a big global manufacturer - they're now involved by implication), rather than a private personal card?
Can I get National to refund me if I can prove they've paid a non-enforcable parking invoice, rather than an official fine (I need to check their T&Cs for the specific word they use, or whether it's a cover-all like 'parking charges' etc).

Thoughts?

Cheers, Neil

Coupon-mad

zebedee70 wrote: »

Anyone know if there is any redress? For example, could I go to Amex and refute National's charges, even though I signed a rental agreement which allows them to re-charge any parking charges to me? Can they legally do this to a corporate card (although my name is on it, I work for a big global manufacturer - they're now involved by implication), rather than a private personal card?
Can I get National to refund me if I can prove they've paid a non-enforcable parking invoice, rather than an official fine (I need to check their T&Cs for the specific word they use, or whether it's a cover-all like 'parking charges' etc).

Thoughts?

Cheers, Neil

Have a look at this thread, it's typical and when the poster showed the t&cs to us on the forum you can see that it was clear that the car rental firm's contract only allowed them to deduct for real fines, not parking charge notices from private chancers:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/33715217#Comment_33715217

So yes, your first urgent thing is to check out the t&cs for your car hire. If you can't find them, ask the car hire company for them. Why not write - snail mail - and refute the deduction from your Amex card and state that you believe under their t&cs they can only deduct for penalties (i.e. official fines from the Police or Local Authority). This is neither so state that they must refund your card in full forthwith or you will take further action to recover your money.

Ask the hire co. to show where in their t&cs they consider they are allowed to pay any old mickey mouse parking charge notice (which - in case they are not aware - is NOT a penalty nor a fine!).

Then they will reply and either refund you or reject your request and show you the t&cs. I expect it will be the latter but no doubt those t&cs won't cover them at all!

At the same time, take the matter to Amex - tell them asap that you wish to dispute that payment. Check the timeframe up front with Amex for chargebacks so you get any form in on time. I think they have such a scheme, have a look at their website or phone them. I seem to recall a case on pepipoo.com where a motorist had very little trouble getting Amex to refund a spurious payment to a clamper.

IMHO, I very much doubt that the hire t&cs cover the hire co. for the deduction.

If Amex give you any trouble with the payment chargeback then post back on here. There is always the Financial Ombudsman to look into Amex's decision if they won't retract the payment.

zebedee70

Thanks CouponMad - that's just what I wanted to hear...Whatever happens, I'll post it back here in case it helps someone else...

Cheers, Neil

Coblcris

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/story/Question-private-parking-fines-fleets-urged/50211

Oopsadaisy

Zeb,

don't waste too much time being nice to amex or the hireco.

Insist on a chargeback with Amex - in writing/email.

£100 kicks in Section 75 - so write to Amex

[BTW iirc Amex is a chargecard as opposed to a credit card, so may be slightly different; does S75 apply to Amex??]

Hireco - send a 'Final Notice before legal Action letter' - basically giving them 14/28 days to give you your money back. Refuse? - issue papers in County Court [5 mins online, costs £30[which oyu get back when you win]. Possibly consider sending same to Amex and co-naming them in the court papers??

My experience is that they will get you a cheque for the full amt [inc court fees] sent out pretty sharp [since it's gonna cost them £200 an hour for legal advice, and the case would be heard in small claims court closest to you [more costs for them]]. Don't worry about theior legal costs, even if you lost you wouldn't have to pay their costs.

They only understand one thing......money/costs.

AlexisV

If they pay any old invoice that lands on their desk, get a friend to get his company to invoice them for £173 for a "parking contravention charge" on his land. Then you can invoice your mate's company to get the cash back.

Cyberelic

Hi,
Dropped into my local Tesco today and parked in a disabled bay. I have a large 'Disabled' sticker on the windscreen, but as I am aware of the rules re private parking I did not display my disabled card nor the time clock card. I was only gone a few minutes, all I needed was a small pot of double cream, but when I returned some little sh*t had stuck a Parking Charge Notice on the car (MET). He was still there so I complained and showed him my card but he refused to remove/cancel it.

I have no intention at all to pay, nor to respond to these extortioners, but I wonder, should I complain as loudly as possible to Tesco?

Also if these sh*ts clamp me, can I pull out my card and call the police to have the clamp removed?

P.

Coupon-mad

Yes you can and should complain to Tesco!

You could mention that restricting use of disabled bays on private land only for people displaying a Blue Badge is considered to be a breach of the DDA - if the motorist or passenger does have a disability. Service providers have a legal duty to provide sufficient, accessible 'disabled spaces' to all disabled motorists/passengers (Blue Badge or not!) as I think you know anyway.

And they won't clamp you over this alleged 'debt', firstly it would be illegal (but don't expect the Police to realise that...things are not so simple in 'cloud clamping land'). Secondly, I doubt there are any clamping signs in the car park, but always check! Drive away from any place where you see private clamping signs, don't give such idiots your business if they are in cahoots with scammers.

But in the absence of clamping signs, ordinary old 'private parking charge/penalty' signs - very prevalent in Supermarket car parks - are there to be laughed at!

MET were outed by Watchdog only a few weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

You'll just need to ignore a scam threatogram letter-series just like everyone else on here. You really have nothing to worry about with MET, they have never taken anyone to Court.

Oopsadaisy

None of the supermarkets allow clamping [afaicr].

Thepieman

I'll keep this short & to the point.
Parked my Van in the clearly marked 'loading bay' and proceeded to deliver my goods.
Came back and a very nice man was writing out a ticket then gave it to me..
So I was in a loading bay actually loading and in a van, you all still with me?
I wrote to Shoal asking why did I get a ticket when I was parked correctly, only reply I got was pay the fine which had now doubled then you can appeal.
I wrote back using a copy of Martins letter..
Received a letter back today stating that if payment is not received within 14 days criminal proceedings will take place!
They enclosed a copy of the court papers that will be issued should I not pay via credit card within the next 14 days.

Basically I'm seeking advice as to what to do next.. I have photo evidence, proof of delivery note etc etc...

I look forward to your comments/advice.