Coal prices

A._Badger

My beef is with the coal wholesalers, nykmedia. I agree that they are subject to inflationary pressures, as is everyone else, but the real reason prices have risen so quickly has been because the tiny handful of large companies that import and distribute coal and solid fuel here price it against oil and gas.

As oil and gas are subject to wild speculative swings, they simply float the coal price up to match. As a result, just as with oil, the increase isn't really due to increased costs, but an increased opportunity.

Curiously, it never seems to come down again, when the oil price drops, however.

In my own case, I'm switching back to wood which, despite also being subject to inflationary pressures, seems to have been a lot more stable in price - probably because there is far greater price competition in that market.

The suppliers being small and independent, they have to price against one another and any speculative rises would lead to intense competition.

I believe coal is a racket, but because comparatively few people use it these days, investigating this near-cartel simply doesn't interest our politicians.

Frugaldom

SEE wrote: »

Pass it around:beer:


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Coal--Prices/

I just checked this again and it appears that not many could care less about coal prices, unless nobody actually knows of the existance of this petition.

james981

The biggest problem I have found with the coal is that most of the heat goes up the chimney. I know that many people burn coal for effect and are not too concerned about that but if you rely on coal as your only source of heating then this is a major concern. You can buy state of the art stoves for 2 or 3 grand which will put most of the heat into the room rather than up the chimney but if you don't have any money thats a bit academic to say the least. You can, as I have discovered, improve the efficiency of your open fire by placing cast iron against the fire back. My neighbour was disposing of a cast iron bath and I did a deal with him that I would smash up the bath and dispose of it for him. I used a sledge hammer to smash the bath into pieces and because of the shape of the bath I was able to select pieces of cast iron to line my fireback. I think this has probably doubled the amount of heat that the fire puts into the room because I now get 1 or 2 degrees of extra room temperature at the same outside air temperature.

Frugaldom

Thanks for that, James, I wonder if that works in the same way the coal saver fire bricks do? I bought some of them last year, which reduced the overall area available in the grate but also seemed to help push out more heat into the room. Or was that just my imagination?

Coal bunker is full here, as is the log store, but I really need to consider a second, larger log store to start stacking green wood for next year. Apparently there's a huge difference in the costs between that and seasoned logs that are ready for burning.

Does anyone sweep their own chimney?

pblackford

A. Badger,

As a 3rd generation Coal Merchant I do know a little bit about this subject.

Firstly, transportation/haulage costs DO make a difference in the price of the fuel. In the south, me being in Sussex, we have to pay for the fact we do not have any local mines/sea docks local to us, and with the ever increasing price of diesel it will inevitably put up the price on the end product.

We, as a merchant, couldnt believe the prices we were given from our suppliers last September for the winter 2008-9, but we had to put up with them. Due to the fact there are only a handfull of producers of domestic fuels in the UK we are very limited in what we can supply.

Yes, the prices have risen dramatically, but hopefully this years winters prices will not see the huge %age rise as last year. We have more summer discount available this year than many years previously.

We shall see what happens.

I hope this helps.

A._Badger

pblackford wrote: »

A. Badger,

<snipped>

We, as a merchant, couldnt believe the prices we were given from our suppliers last September for the winter 2008-9, but we had to put up with them. Due to the fact there are only a handfull of producers of domestic fuels in the UK we are very limited in what we can supply.

Yes, the prices have risen dramatically, but hopefully this years winters prices will not see the huge %age rise as last year. We have more summer discount available this year than many years previously."

I did, very specifically, say the wholesalers were at fault here. I didn't mention local merchants because I know from talking with my own local coal merchant that the rip-off comes from the handful of near-monopoly distributors.

But, though I understand how hard it must be for individual coal merchants to have to cope with this situation, the fact remains that we consumers are being exploited and we will react by switching to other fuels, where we can.

If the distributors' greed further damages this hugely diminished market, they will only have themselves to blame and both you, the local chaps on the ground, and we, the consumers, will have suffered because of their stupidity.

They have no direct contact with the end-users, so really, it is up to individual coal merchants to warn them how close they are to seriously damaging their long term market.

dekh

CPL are the cheapest for us. I live in Newcastle upon Tyne.

In previous winters we have CH on during the day then fire in the front room in the evening. Normally we use 6 250KG loads in a winter. Currently the winters seem to run September to June up here

Last September I put my first order in and found they had put their prices up by over 30%. After I stopped choking I asked why and was told that it was because the Chinese had put the price up.

Coals to Newcastle ... from China?

So we only bought 2 loads this winter and used the CH more.

I called CPL in June - no budge on prices.

CPL called me last week.

They have their "summer" prices now. Supertherm isn't included but I still managed to get 20% extra of it for the same price. With the bulk in sealed bags, because I can only store 250KG loose, for the same price as loose.

So that's 2.4 loads being delivered today (I hope) and if the price goes back to last years winter price or higher it will have to last - just like last winter.

Sorry for the long story.

Oh yeah, I put the fire bricks (from Wilkinsons) in the grate last year, it almost halfed the amount of fuel used and the room felt just as hot.

edit...
So normally I buy 6 lots of 250kg. Last winter only 2. This winter so far only 2 (+.4free)
Does that make sense to CPL?
/edit

abigbill

No price rise for me on last year. I pay 2.30 + VAT inc delivery a bag (10kg) for CPLs cheapest smokeless ovals in Bucks but that is ordered and delivered in June. Or £5.75 + Vat for 25kg (or £11.50 for 50Kg) if that is how you wnat to see the price. Rule 1. Never buy Coal when its cold. But that price is for 5 tonne. And I have to store it. Which is a pain. I like 10kg bags 'cos I can just throw them into my Dowling Sumo Stove, or my Coalbrookdale Severn, bag and all. Dowling heats water & 19 Rads (great kit! but pricey) Bags goes in no Mess etc. Logs are jsut for fun round here. Way too dear for anything but looking good. Coal for me saves a fortune in LPG too.

SEE

I searched for the best prices this year and sadly had to ditch a local supplier who has been going for years in favour of CPL. I've just ordered my second tonne which I hope will see me through winter as I'll have 2 tonne in the shed.

CPL are charging £14.75 per 50kg delivered to my area. I've spent the summer breaking up old roofing lath and I have some logs. Fingers crossed we won't be going down to the predicted -10 too often, and after getting off the phone from CPL they say expect another price rise in Sept, but they don't know how much. The coal I'm getting at £14.75 was £19 before they dropped to summer prices.

Frugaldom

Still no summer prices here, stocking up on logs instead.