Should I pay..Civil Enforcement Ltd?

gentry

Thanks for that. Sorry for the hijack, did not think!

mervyng2

I received a fine from civil enforcement ltd few months ago and after reading few forums on the net ive decided to ignore them. but today I've received a letter from them sayin that they intend to take the matter to Northampton County Courts. they say they wud send their claims to the court on 25th november and once judgement is obtained they wud seize my vehicle/ goods and many other things they can possibly do...

shud i continue to ignore them?

the claim form attached looks fake to me... i went on to Hermajesty government website to see the blank claim form which they used in this letter i received today. The main british emblem is missing on this letter and there is no claim number and issue date. Few bits in the form looks blurred (like scanned and pasted into the document)...

I am thinking to go to British citizenship bureau to discuss the issue. what shall i do?

do reply

thanks

trisontana

mervyng2 wrote: »

I received a fine from civil enforcement ltd few months ago and after reading few forums on the net ive decided to ignore them. but today I've received a letter from them sayin that they intend to take the matter to Northampton County Courts. they say they wud send their claims to the court on 25th november and once judgement is obtained they wud seize my vehicle/ goods and many other things they can possibly do...

shud i continue to ignore them?

the claim form attached looks fake to me... i went on to Hermajesty government website to see the blank claim form which they used in this letter i received today. The main british emblem is missing on this letter and there is no claim number and issue date. Few bits in the form looks blurred (like scanned and pasted into the document)...

I am thinking to go to British citizenship bureau to discuss the issue. what shall i do?

do reply

thanks

Could you please stop posting in multiple threads.

TheDefendant

Wow this is a gold mine of information.

I signed up here with the aim of posting my own story to get some advice but it seems I’m not the only one who thought of that. I won’t go in to too much detail but like the majority I have received 2 reminder notices and am now looking at my letter saying they are about to take me to court which includes the drafted Northampton County Court claim form.

Needless to say I have every intention of ignoring these letters and I’m certainly not going to humour them by entering into any form of dialogue. I am the registered owner of the vehicle granted but was not the driver at the time. I feel comfortable ignoring these letters because I have both receipt based evidence and geo-tagged photographic evidence (thank you iphone) showing that I was 80 miles away at the date and time of the offence, so am pretty sure that they will have trouble proving that I was the driver.

However I do have a few questions;

1. Has anyone here actually seen the end of this increasingly threatening letter chain?
2. Has anyone actually been taken to court (recently)? And if so what was the outcome?
3. Is anyone who is giving the ‘Just Ignore’ advice in the same situation as the people looking for advice? Ignoring these is a lot easier said than done particularly if you wife opens the letter and freaks outs.
4. These PCN’s have been around for a while and they must be getting wise to the just ignore stance and looking for more loop holes to try get their money back. Are there any other tactics that we should be expecting? Like an actual bailiff turning up on your doorstep?

I’ve looked into the Northampton County Court claim form in more detail to put my own mind at rest as I was worried they would sneakily get something passed the courts without me having an opportunity to defend myself. If they have raised an official claim then you would receive a claim pack from the official HMC parties (MCOL) and have 14 days to respond, either online or via the post so there is no need to go to court. Don’t believe any of the ‘so called official’ documents they send they are all draft documents. In order to raise an official claim they would have to part with some cash which must be the last thing on their list.

I guess I can live with the entertaining letters for another few years until I sell my car and move house.

Coupon-mad

TheDefendant wrote: »

However I do have a few questions;

1. Has anyone here actually seen the end of this increasingly threatening letter chain?

Yes, everyone who posted more than a few months ago will have done. Not many go beyond a year, usually.

TheDefendant wrote: »

2. Has anyone actually been taken to court (recently)? And if so what was the outcome?

No, not by Civil Enforcement. But a few other PPCs have tried a handful of cases, almost all lost by the PPC (I think one might have won, not sure as it was hearsay). Cases are almost always lost by PPCs as they do not prove there was ever a contract, or take the registered keeper to Court instead of the driver, or have misleading signs like in the Excel-v-Martin Cutts case recently (Google it).

TheDefendant wrote: »

3. Is anyone who is giving the ‘Just Ignore’ advice in the same situation as the people looking for advice? Ignoring these is a lot easier said than done particularly if you wife opens the letter and freaks outs.

Pretty much all of us, myself included (but mine was from Euro Car Parks). And in my case I am 'the wife' and my husband was the one who freaked out a bit. He still doesn't get it, thinks I come on here advising people about a 'loophole' to get out of paying. I think he was brought up to believe a little too unquestioningly in perceived authority whereas I am more cynical! Anyway nothing happened except the letter-chain of course.

TheDefendant wrote: »

4. These PCN’s have been around for a while and they must be getting wise to the just ignore stance and looking for more loop holes to try get their money back. Are there any other tactics that we should be expecting? Like an actual bailiff turning up on your doorstep?

You cannot just send a bailiff round to someone's doorstep because you allege a person owes you money! That would be a criminal offence of impersonating a Court bailiff. As with many people, you are possibly muddling up debt collectors and bailiffs, which are different. The waters are a bit muddied where you have a firm that can act as both (i.e. they have a bailiff arm which does act for Courts as well as the debt collector side of pen-pushers).

But in the case of doing fake PCN debt collector work there's no Court Order, no Credit Agreement, no default, no debt and they have no powers and do not turn up on doorsteps ever. Even a firm which also sometimes does Bailiff work for Courts cannot just send the boys round when they are doing private debt collection work for a random firm with no credit agreement or contract breached.

Have you read the sticky threads, seen the debt collector letters in pics, seen the Watchdog video? If not then look at 'PPC letters, what to expect' and 'welcome, please read before posting':

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

...and also you'll see that there are new threads about this scam every single day on the front page. Everyone is told to ignore the letters (in the absence of real, sealed Court papers which are a rare as hens' teeth). Tell your friends, spread the word about the fake PCN scam just like we do.

Oopsadaisy

1. Yes
2. No [maybe 0.000000000001%, and of these 99% of the PPC claims lose, the one that win are fixes].
3. Yes
4. Nothing really.

Relax and enjoy.

MustangP51

I am a newby to this site.I also received a FINAL DEMAND notice from CEL last week. Did not get the first notice (dont know why).I was not driving the vehicle on the day in questoin as i was unwell. Reading all the threads on this site has reasured me, so I will just ignore any more letters from these cowboys.Two points I would like to find out about are:
1/If these people come round and take my property without a proper court order (garden furniture, car etc) when I am out ,is this then THEFT.
2/Does a court order come direct from the county court and not by CEL.
Great site ,it has reasured me 100% and I will not pay these sharks.

esmerobbo

MustangP51 wrote: »

1/If these people come round and take my property without a proper court order (garden furniture, car etc) when I am out ,is this then THEFT.
2/Does a court order come direct from the county court and not by CEL.
Great site ,it has reasured me 100% and I will not pay these sharks.

1 Yes it would be theft although even these low life would not stoop so low. [As long as they intended to permanently deprive you of it] Pendants

2 Yes it would come in an official HMCS brown envelope stamped and you can check it online! However you wont get one off CEL. What you might get is a pretend one and a threat to issue one!

MustangP51

Thanks esmerobbo,I thought that was the case but you have eased my mind. A third party was driving my car on the day in question but we do not know where the parking charge was for,as I did not get the first notice only a final reminder.
I assume that the County court that would deal with it would be (if it ever happened) the county the parking charge occured in.
This is all new to me, and without this site,I might have paid up.Now I am getting all my facts right and preparing to stand my ground. NO PAYMENT

esmerobbo

MustangP51 wrote: »

Thanks esmerobbo,I thought that was the case but you have eased my mind. A third party was driving my car on the day in question but we do not know where the parking charge was for,as I did not get the first notice only a final reminder.
I assume that the County court that would deal with it would be (if it ever happened) the county the parking charge occured in.
This is all new to me, and without this site,I might have paid up.Now I am getting all my facts right and preparing to stand my ground. NO PAYMENT

No in the 000000.1% chance they issued a claim you can defend and elect any county court you wish.
They then have to do the travelling. We have seen cases were this has meant a win for a defendant because it would cost the PPC too much to attend court.
There is one or two clowns who believe chasing claims around the country is a good idea, but apart from them scoring points, even a win will cost them money!

Luckily CEL although they are clowns they don't do court!