Should I pay..Civil Enforcement Ltd?

The_Slithy_Tove

The only problem and fuss you'll have is transporting their silly letters from the doormat to the bin.

I assume you've read this thread, and all the other similar ones. Nothing will happen. Don't fret. Now get on with your life.

Coupon-mad

Welcome to MSE - you have dodged a scam but PLEASE stop ringing up and replying to them!

When you come to a new forum, always read the sticky info threads at the top of the board you are about to post on:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.php?f=163

Top sticky (permanent info) thread shows the CE letter-chain in pics so you can just play snap till they stop sending letters. And another sticky, 'Welcome, please read before posting' tells you these fake PCNs are unenforceable and has a link to Watchdog on the matter.

Relax. Tell your friends about this scam. Nothing else happens.

Octavia_Vrs

Apparently one of our company cars was in a car park for a total of 13 mins (not sure who was driving it on that day) - I drove down to the car park afterwards and although there was a sign it was high on the wall and wouldn't have been seen by a driver unless they happened to be looking up as they drove in.

We initially had the demand in June (I think) but having heard about these money making scams (which of course is exactly what they are) and the fact that they are operated by private companies (I use the word with "companies" with reluctance) I decide to ignore the demand.

A few days ago we had yet another more threatening demand showing a total bill of £265 which if we don't pay they threaten to issue a country court summons that will increase the bill to over £400.

Reading this forum I am assuming that people all over the country are getting demands from these muppets.

I plan to totally ignore it as many people on here have suggested, I have never responded to them at all, as I dare say they are like clamping companies, who prefer to hide in the background out of the lime light.

There is no justification for what they do, their style of so called business or the inflated demands they issue.

I am pretty sure they don't want to actually take people to court as it will highlight what they are doing, if people start defending against this type of bully boy operation.

Yesterday I spoke to a solicitor friend of mine who happens to specialise in corporate debt recovery, and whilst he can advise me as to the likelihood of civil enforcement actually taking this to court, he did provide me with a link to this forum.

He also mentioned that a search on google for civil enforcement ltd will also lead to a watchdog item.

I would think that a shady operation like this will want to keep as low a profile as possible, and taking people to court on trumped up parking charges isn't likely to win them any favours with the courts, or in terms of publicity.

I run a company and we can only charge people by agreement, this thing about charging people just because there is a small sign posted in the general area should not hold any water in law.

Its a total farce and I for one will be standing my ground, if like most bullies they just want to push people around, they wont like or probably want to take on someone who is not scared and prepared to make a right stink about it?

anyway rant over people, I wish you all the best with your individual situations, but remember bullies only win by intimidation, if you refuse to be intimidated the chance are they will look for an easier fight :exclamati

Octavia_Vrs

The section titled parking charge notice makes an interesting read :-)

I am not allowed to post links here because I am new user - so if you go to the watchdog website and look under consumer advice tab, then under parking tickets section, you will find a sectioned titled Parking Charge Notice

which says that a private company only has a contract (if a small sign can be considered a contract) with the driver of the vehicle and not the registered keeper, and as the registered keeper of the vehicle you have no obligation to provide the parking company with any details regarding the driver, rather it is for the company to provide evidence in the event of a court case.

Coupon-mad

Yep, there is also lots of info on our sticky threads 'PPC letters, what to expect' and also 'welcome, please read before posting' which has the Watchdog clip which is a must-see:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

You are exactly right with your approach and good on you for not just paying it then deducting it from your driver's wages. A fake PCN is just that, a scam.

Only ever take seriously a real ticket from the Police, TFL or Council.

Welcome to MSE, read a few threads then why not click on the forums link itself to see what else is here. Most people stick around as there's such a wealth of info, discussion, links, everything.

mervyng2

guys i received a similar letter from civil enforcement ltd few montha ago.. after reading few forums ive decided to ignore them... after the final reminder I've received a letter today saying that they are intended to take the matter to Northampton County Court. It is not from Newlyn. i wish i cud attach the letter here...

Anyway the letter still looks fake to me as the County Courts Act (section 69) looks like scanned and pasted into the letter. They say they will seize my vehicle/good, and many other things they can possibly do.

What shall I do? Do I continue to ignore them? It just bugging me.

Please do reply

AlexisV

Who is it actually from? Anybody can put they intend to take the matter to <insert court name here> in a letter.

Coupon-mad

mervyng2 wrote: »

guys i received a similar letter from civil enforcement ltd few montha ago.. after reading few forums ive decided to ignore them... after the final reminder I've received a letter today saying that they are intended to take the matter to Northampton County Court. It is not from Newlyn. i wish i cud attach the letter here...

Anyway the letter still looks fake to me as the County Courts Act (section 69) looks like scanned and pasted into the letter. They say they will seize my vehicle/good, and many other things they can possibly do.

What shall I do? Do I continue to ignore them? It just bugging me.

Please do reply

It's just CE's new tactics; a new letter which has an unsealed Court form attached. They cannot just apply for a CCJ, nor seize your goods or car and there is NO court case pending.

See this thread where it's been mentioned by others who have had your letter too:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/48488517#Comment_48488517

Report it to your local Trading Standards, MP, Office of Fair Trading, the DVLA and and the BPA as well. Not that the latter is anything more than a members' club for PPCs but the fake Court papers breaches the Code of Practice I think and this should be specifically said to the DVLA and BPA in any complaint as the DVLA do take specific complaints seriously about breaches by companies who are obtaining keeper's details. In the case of the OfT it breaches their debt collector guidelines and they do have the power to revoke CCA licences.

More info here about debt collectors' harassment which is actually a criminal offence:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=03_harassment

And why not tell Watchdog about CE's new tactics? They have mentioned CE before, last year, in a piece about misleading letter-headings & wording of PPC threatograms. They may like to hear that CE have stepped up the misleading letters with fake Court papers now:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/

HTH, but apart from that just ignore it. PPCs only change their letter-chains because forums like ours are successful in telling people what to ignore.

By the way, you could help others by sending a pm to Crabman (who maintains the letter-chains thread) with a link to pics of your letters so he can update the top sticky.

gentry

I am new to this forum but someone might be able to help. i was sent a pcn by Westminter council for parking on a double yellow, albeit for thirty seconds. I saw an item on the news this morning that gave the idea that any ticket issued with the aid of a cctv camera was illegal because they are certificated for this purpose. Anyone else see the interview or know about this? The guy seemed to think that any tickets like this sshould be refunded! Any thoughts?

Coupon-mad

gentry wrote: »

I am new to this forum but someone might be able to help. i was sent a pcn by Westminter council for parking on a double yellow, albeit for thirty seconds. I saw an item on the news this morning that gave the idea that any ticket issued with the aid of a cctv camera was illegal because they are certificated for this purpose. Anyone else see the interview or know about this? The guy seemed to think that any tickets like this sshould be refunded! Any thoughts?

Yep, there was a story about it I think, and in any case you are always best to try to appeal ANY Council parking ticket. Never mind the news, most people WIN who appeal as far as adjudication, pretty much whatever the circumstances.

This thread is nothing to do with Council parking tickets though so it's not relevant here!

So post a pic of your PCN on pepipoo, both sides of the PCN as per their FAQs 'how to post pictures'. It's a specialist advice/fightback forum for PCNs:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

They will tell you on what grounds you may be able to appeal, one of which would be to question the certified approval of the device but there are also other points of appeal for camera use for parking contraventions.

HTH, see you on pepipoo but start your own thread there, do not hijack one that's irrelevant!