Bad Reference - oh yes they can

Got2change

therealdessie wrote: »

Don't get so hung up on having to justify your position, because if you do that you accept in a round-about way that they were right in what they said. They WEREN'T right, you DON'T have anything to explain and all you need do is demonstrate how you did the best you could under those unfortunate circumstances.

You want to project an image (to anyone, not just this employer) of someone who has had to deal with very tiresome and juvenile people (which you have!) in a positive and adult way.

ah dessie (is your name connected to Desert Orchid perchance?) -

- right again, as always. I do see that my focus seems to be on justifying what happened and am aware that it does seem to accept that what they have said has an element of truth in it....

I am looking at the letter again to project the air that you describe.

Thank you again.
x

Got2change

sheena4711 wrote: »

Update on previous post, my friend was informed yesterday by letter that she would get compensation from her previous employers without having to resort to going to the small claims court. No solicitors cost involved, she just acted on advice from CAB. Good luck to you, there is hope.

That sounds fabulous! I wonder if my CAB could be as helpful - but sadly, doubt it.

My nearest can't help my postcode and the one that possibly could is over 18 miles away with a "drop in service".

I may try though.
x

CFC

Hi G2c,

You might not like what I am going to say but I am going to say it anyway because I think you need to hear a different perspective on it.

You were never going to fit in with your previous employer as what was valued at your 'last proper' employer was not valued with your last one, and vice versa.
For example, as an hourly paid worker, your employer really does care whether you clock in on time. Staying later does not make up for it. And by 'on time' I do mean...on time, not 9.01 or 9.04.

An hourly paid worker who needs to clock on is in a junior role; in a senior role nobody cares if you are a few minutes late, because at the end of the day it's your workload and outputs that you are responsible for. Therefore if you need to stay late people assume that it's because you need to finish your work. As an hourly paid junior worker, the assumption will be that there is something 'wrong'; and this assumption will be compounded further if you are told not to stay late and yet you do so, against your employer's wishes.

Again, in the same way, if you are struggling with your workload, which you have agreed to take on, in a senior role you will be expected to just suffer with it (providing you are competent to do it) as you've made your own bed and must lie in it. Expectations are not the same for an hourly paid worker. You didn't ask for overtime; to your employers this would have signalled that there was more work than you could complete and at that point you and your employer would have discussed what could have realistically been completed within the allocated hours. To your employer it may looked as if you were behaving quite oddly in staying late, even after you had been told not to, but you never asked for overtime so you were aware that your job could be completed in the allocated hours.

The disparity between your three month review and the reference given a while later can be understood in this kind of context.

I can't comment on any other factors on the reference, but these are the ones which jump out at me.

Notice that you have done nothing 'wrong' (except failing to follow instructions not to stay late, which frankly was a mistake), but there is a huge disparity between the way that you would 'natively' approach work and the way your employers would expect you to approach work.

Because of this mismatch of expectations on both sides, you need to take a step back from the reference and stop letting it 'get to you'. Otherwise you are likely to just get yourself into an angry, nervous and obsessed state which will do you no good at all and will simply harm your future.

You need to stop taking this whole thing personally, as an attack on you, and see the situation and its fall out as a total mismatch between yourself and your previous role and this last role. You do appear to understand this, so stop letting it get to you.

In fact take it as a confidence-strengthener that all the aspects of your character and approach to work that your last 'real job' appreciated are so ingrained in your character that you will be a massive asset to the right employer.

As for the real disappointment, the job that you missed out on that you really want, it certainly does no harm to send a letter requesting that they reconsider their job withdrawal offer. The letter that therealdessie has rewritten hits just the right tone.

Got2change

CFC - Thank you very much for your refreshing take on this situation.

The point that you make about clocking in/hourly paid is totally valid and I agree to an extent. In this particular situation the clocking in and out was primarily for the warehouse "shop floor" staff and their wages certainly were calculated from the clock cards. It was never clear and actually there was some discussion about why I actually was clocking in and after the three month review, I was told that I would be changed to monthly pay and therefore no need to clock in/fill in a time sheet etc etc. When things started to go **** up, I was told that the Site Manager and HR Manager exchanged emails regarding my change to monthly and the instruction was to keep me on weekly as "it will be for the best in the long run". (Don't have to be a genius to see the implcations of that.)

I never stayed late to "make up" for clocking in late; I stayed late due to the volume of work and expectations of clients and colleagues. The "help" that was supplied has been explained before and I shan't bother bring up that messy, pointless and harmful situation again.

I was wrong and stupid to apply for such a junior position (not actually realising that it was to be honest), the men who appointed me should have seen what a misfit I would be in that environment; instead they couldn't speak highly enough of me (at the outset) and failed to consider I think the reactions to me of those at the coalface - with whom I wanted and needed to have a good relationship.

At any interviews I have had since leaving them, I have played down any bad experiences and, as you suggest, inferred that the organisation and I were a bad match. To repeat, I would have been happy to carry on moving forward with my life until recent events have meant that, if I'm not careful, I am going to have attempts to MOVE ON hampered at best and utterly sabotaged at worst.

Got2change

"The disparity between your three month review and the reference given a while later can be understood in this kind of context."


Just one other thing though - the disparity is ridiculous though; even on the very worst of my bad days, I could NOT ever have been described as "Poor" or even "Acceptable".

Given that one of the (unpublicised) reasons for firing me was that I didn't want to wear slippers to work, I set incredibly little store by what they say TBH - the problem has been that potential employers do not know the full story and attempting to set the record straight is the epitome of futulity.

zzzLazyDaisy

Got2change wrote: »

That sounds fabulous! I wonder if my CAB could be as helpful - but sadly, doubt it.

My nearest can't help my postcode and the one that possibly could is over 18 miles away with a "drop in service".

I may try though.
x

Just to clarify - CABx have defined areas for funding reasons and also because their resources in terms of volunteer time are limited - put simply, most just don't have the resources to offer a fully comprehensive phone service. BUT I have never come across a CAB that would turn away someone who turned up at the door, regardless of the post-code (I worked closely with a number of CABx when I was in practice). So even though you may be strictly outside the area for your nearest CAB, it would be worth going along and waiting your turn (take a book, it can be a long wait).

CFC

Got2change wrote: »

"The disparity between your three month review and the reference given a while later can be understood in this kind of context."


Just one other thing though - the disparity is ridiculous though; even on the very worst of my bad days, I could NOT ever have been described as "Poor" or even "Acceptable".

Given that one of the (unpublicised) reasons for firing me was that I didn't want to wear slippers to work, I set incredibly little store by what they say TBH - the problem has been that potential employers do not know the full story and attempting to set the record straight is the epitome of futulity.

I'm very glad to hear that you set little store by what they say.

As for attempting to set the record straight, you are correct in that it is an exercise in futility. If you are successful in getting your desired employers to meet with you to reconsider their offer withdrawal, don't try to do this.

Simply explain that most of the problems and the degeneration in your working relationships occurred through communication issues and mismatched expectations; explain that a number of the problems arose from being used to 'owning your workload' and having responsibility, that your ex employers did not understand how to relate to you because of this; perhaps giving the 'slippers' story if it would throw light on your ex employer's odd ways (it certainly sounds odd). This will be far more powerfully reassuring than any kind of 'setting record straight' or arguing that you were better than they said in your reference, which will simply go down the 'he said,she said' route.

Taking a junior position was neither wrong nor stupid, you simply didn't realise the consequences. You were certainly right to take any job rather than sell yourself on the streets!

Wishing you the very best of luck

CFC
x

tonycree

I believe some companies, if it is left to certain individuals...
you know and have mentioned them...
the bullies, etc.
do give 'bad' references - even tho' it is supposed to be unlawful...
but bullies believe they are beyond the law, don't forget...
I believe my last employer, Business Post / UKMail @ Leeds are not playing it straight after sacking me after 6 1/2 years of an (virtually) umblemished record...
the spelling mistakes and belittling and wrong stuff in the ref. sounds just like the so-called manager there...he was ignorant, illiterate and a tin-pot Hitler as well...
naturally, I am in the throes of form-filling and seeking advice for a tribunal...
these type of people need to be shown a lesson by all of us...
keep fighting / make there jobs hard / make them accountable to the law and their superiors...
eventually they will get their cumuppance...
all the best, people...
T
T.

Got2change

tonycree - so sorry to hear that you've had a hard time of it too.

It is a work in progress for me (although no tribunal) but not quite number one priority today.

Keep your chin up and let us know how it's going or if you need advice (not from me mind...).

x

tonycree

apparently, the weasel had been after me for about 6 years....
how sad is he????
an incident happened and i was seen on cctv at the 'scene of the crime'...
the camera panned away for 8 seconds, i think, and the 'damage' was done...
they came to conclusions, assumptions and there own truths...
though I told my version of events - I was not believed...
I was not 'caught' on cctv doing what they say happened...
they never produced, tho' asked for, photographis evidence of any damage...
and they never produced any actual damaged material, asked for also...
they didn't interview anyone in the warehouse at the time...
they interviewed people from a different shift...
they put their version of events into people's heads...
and well...
it goes on -
6 years he'd been waiting for this oppurtunity...
and he's got away with it!!
so far...
never trust HR Depts. either, people...
they are there to try and make sure the managers are protected
and it is rare they go against a managers decision...
especially if there are no unions allowed on site...
all the best...
T.