Bad Reference - oh yes they can

Got2change

Another update - and a bit of a vent I suppose too.....
(Following on from the now non-existent job dilemma)

No wonder the job offcer was withdrawn!!!!

My ex-employers have sent me a copy of the reference form that they submitted and all I will say is - no wonder the offer was withdrawn (side issue though is that the reference is dated 20/5 and the offer was withdrawn last week, for no reason other than this reference)!!!!

Not satisfied with deeming me to be - at worst "poor" in every category they could (apart from "Attendance = Excellent") and "fair" at best, then took great pains to fill in the "additional information (optional)" section with teeny tiny writing to make sure that I was totally damned and would not have a snowball in hell's chance of being taken on anywhere having had the cheek to name them as a referee.

The only disclaimer that they made is that the job types are/were not like-for-like so could not actually comment on my suitability and that I am articulate and well-presented (which I actually took to mean that I may interview well but am all front....?).

In addition, the copy of the reference was accompanied with a lengthy letter to me ram home how much I wasn't any good there and that I must not make contact with the HR Manager (who was not actually the person I had named as referee) or the Company ever again.

Goes without saying that I cannot give them as a reference again - not EVEN to confirm dates of employment/attendance - and I suppose my own stupid fault to name them this time but I couldn't know that the reference request would take the form that it did, nor that they would take yet another opportunity to bully me and nor that, having been interviewed and provisionally offered the role, this reference would carry the weight that it did. And "moving on" as I am frequently advised and bleeping well trying to do made very very difficult.

I have learnt a valuable lesson.

Dill

Good grief! I had no idea an ex-employer could (or would!) do that. Strikes me as very, very unprofessional Personally, if I didn't want to vouch for someone as an employee I would simply not give a reference, not give one slating them!

I find it strange, because the last 2 companies I worked for had a policy not to give references at all (only to confirm dates of employment) and the reason for this was apparently that they were frightened of being sued for giving a bad reference. Perhaps things have changed since then..

I wish you luck with applying for jobs in the future. Try not to let these people get to you too much.

G-G_4

oh jeeez - that's harsh!!

don't give them as a reference again.. :undecided i think you have worked that one out already though..

i'll give you a reference if you ever need one

Idiophreak

Dill wrote: »

Good grief! I had no idea an ex-employer could (or would!) do that. Strikes me as very, very unprofessional Personally, if I didn't want to vouch for someone as an employee I would simply not give a reference, not give one slating them!

I find it strange, because the last 2 companies I worked for had a policy not to give references at all (only to confirm dates of employment) and the reason for this was apparently that they were frightened of being sued for giving a bad reference. Perhaps things have changed since then..

Everywhere I've worked has a similar policy...I have to say, the idea of giving someone *such* a slating in their reference really doesn't seem professional to me...

I guess it was a mistake to ask them for a reference if they'd bullied you (forgive me, I don't know the whole backstory...), but if you really feel the contents of the reference were unfair - and you, presumably, have proof that the contents of the reference directly influenced you not getting this job, I'm sure there are legal channels you can look at to bring action against them.

FairyElephant_2

Hi got2change,

Sorry I have not been following your story all the way, but picking it up from here, have to agree with Dill, that is terrible. Also I think they are correct - companies have been successfully sued for giving bad refs in the past, which is why a lot won't do it anymore.

The last 2 companies I have worked for have been the same - I got a 'personal' reference from my last manager as the co' policy was not to give them on behalf of the company, only to confirm facts like dates of employment.

If you think the reference is unfair - which obviously seems to be the case! then I suggest that you speak to a solicitor (most will give a free 30 mins consulatation or similar in the hope of getting business if your case is valid). Then at least you can have the satisfaction of writing and honestly telling them that you have taken legal advice(!) and requesting that they withdraw the reference and write to the company concerned to tell them that they withdraw it, or you will take the matter further.

Even if this doesn't get you the job offer back, I think I would want to do it for my own reputation and peace of mind.

Sincerely sympathetic, and hoping that you get something sorted soon,

FE

Hippygirl

Dill wrote: »

I find it strange, because the last 2 companies I worked for had a policy not to give references at all (only to confirm dates of employment) and the reason for this was apparently that they were frightened of being sued for giving a bad reference. Perhaps things have changed since then..

.

My husbands company has that policy - he seems to think its the standard policy within his sector.

mrcow

I'm sure you've already done this in all probability, but have you spoken with ACAS over the problems that you've been having.

I have to say that they were very helpful to us and when dealing with a company who had wrongly sacked my brother, were excellent as intermediaries.

Reading through your story, it seems like your ex employer is doing everything in their power to bully you - even now you've left!

Call them on 08457 47 47 47 and see if they have any advice on whether there is anything you can do to help resolve this.

Got2change

Thank you all for such supportive replies; I was almost afraid to "broadcast" what had happened for fear of -
1) Looking the fool that the whole matter has made me belive that I must be,
and
2) Having someone(s) tell me to move on/let it go/get over it etc etc when I had actually got over what happened - now I have to get over the bleeping consequences.

I actually was afraid to give them as a reference but they were my last employer and that was who the new employer wanted and I also simply could not have known the detail the reference request would go into; I was hoping that all would be required was confirmation of dates of starting and leaving and any absences.

The funniest thing is that whoever completed the dates of employment on the reference (not HR manager, she had delegated that part to somone else) actually got the year wrong and that I started in 2006. This conflicted with the information that I gave the new employer on their application form - in addition, my name was spelt incorrectly and not with capital letter, the word competent was laughably mis-spelt and the sentences in which almost everything I did (after the glowing 3 month review) were slated were so poorly constructed it was hard to make sense of them.

They will never again have the privelege of been asked their opinion of me; my CV now has a whacking great hole in it that I shall creatively fill if I am asked.

The (now no longer) new employers did not seem to see how extremely negative and biased the reference was and have set a lot of store by it; but they aren't going to say point blank that that is what has cost me the job (there is NO other reason, I have been told that), so I actually have no faith in them anyway.

I really do want to look for legal advice on this, I just don't know if I'm strong enough.

Got2change

mrcow wrote: »

I'm sure you've already done this in all probability, but have you spoken with ACAS over the problems that you've been having.

I have to say that they were very helpful to us and when dealing with a company who had wrongly sacked my brother, were excellent as intermediaries.

Reading through your story, it seems like your ex employer is doing everything in their power to bully you - even now you've left!

Call them on 08457 47 47 47 and see if they have any advice on whether there is anything you can do to help resolve this.

This is what it has felt like. Thank you for seeing that.

I "threatened" to appeal the dismissal but also had to launch a grievance alongside (over Christamas and New Year) but in the end couldn't go through with it. When I withdrew my appeal/greivance (citing lack of faith in them and my own desire to put my well-being first), I received a two page letter from the HR Manager - reminding me yet again why I had been fired. (One key factor that was mentioned then and has been on the reference was that my insecurity about the job (once the bullying started) was one of the main reasons I was fired. Hmmm.)

I am hold to ACAS as I write this; have to say though that I doubt I have much comeback as I was only with the company from June - Dec last year. (Amazing what an impact it has had. Oh joy.)

dmg24

Could I ask, was the reference actually inaccurate? I am assuming it is, but you have not stated that to be the case.

If the reference is inaccurate, the difficulty with taking legal action is the cost involved. The laws on defamation are complex, and few sols have expertise in this area. There is more information available on the legal aspects of defamation here.

Got2change

Fair question - and one that I was just asked by ACAS.

The thing is though - define factually correct............

The reference is so subjective that who can say what is and isn't factually correct. I was the target of a lot of negative treatment; they wanted me gone and so built a case against me - the reference quotes the case they built. In the end, they felt able to say -

Attendance - Excellent
Honesty/Integrity - Acceptable
Quality of work - Poor
Teamworking - Poor
Ability to work on own
initiative - Poor
Realibility/timekeeping - Poor
Plan & prioritise workload - Poor
Communicate complex
information - Fair
Manage a diverse
workload - Poor
I simply COULD NOT be that bad.

Given the chance to make additional comments, went on to slate my ability further. Again an OPINION.

How could I be so bad - prior to redundancy, I worked for a global organisation (Campbells Grocery Products) as PA to a Director and Administrator to a team of 40 food scientists and technologists; in contact and arranging meetings with and between people around the world. It just doesn't match!!!!