Bad Reference - oh yes they can

therealdessie

Another thing to do is check Companies House Webcheck and get the director listing for the company - make sure they get a CC of your next letter to fill them in on those dodgy practices!

zzzLazyDaisy

the time limit for negligence is three years, not six

Got2change

Thanks for that Daisy - I was only quoting the CLS. Three years would be plenty - to be honest, if I don't take this forward now, I doubt I ever will....

poet123

If you can summon the courage do it......you will most likely regret it later if you don't. Good luck.

Got2change

poet123 wrote: »

If you can summon the courage do it......you will most likely regret it later if you don't. Good luck.

I do want to - and you're right in that I shall probably regret it if I dont - but my worries are -

That I focus on it to the exclusion of everything else -
That it drags me down to a level where I don't function -
That one bad thing (phone call/letter/poor outcome from a question) -

- and I end up in an even worse state than I am now.

Thank you for your support.
x

therealdessie

Just take it one letter at a time, and keep it constructive. Not letting your correspondence get emotional will empower you to keep on top of them, and give you the courage to keep at it.

Got2change

This is the first draft of the letter to the organisation who withdrew the offer.
I know I've not been succinct enough, so input is appreciated (not sure about Oooooooh though), constructive crticisim welcomed but anyone saying that it serve me right or both companies are justified may be best to say nothing at all (as Thumper's mother said.....).
Also, I'm not trying to get them to rescind their retraction but I do want them to see the bigger picture. Have to also decide the best person to send it to as I had contact with several and I really want this to land on the desk of someone inportant not one of the HR numpties I had dealings with (not saying all HR peeps are numpties!).
Here goes -
*hunches down and puts tin hat on*
"
Whilst I realise that it is impossible to confirm that the conditional offer made to me was withdrawn due to the reference received by yourselves from Xxxxxxxx, I have now been given a copy of the reference and can see that this alone would probably result in an offer being withdrawn. I also appreciate that Xxxxx may find it difficult to confirm what I have deduced, but given that –
1) I had actually been interviewed and considered suitable based on the interview
2) I had not yet undergone any kind of medical assessment
3) The requested CRB check (which would be “clear”) had not yet been returned
4) You also received a contrasting reference
there seems little to indicate any other reason for the withdrawl.

At best, the reference is worryingly unbalanced and highly subjective. I would have hoped any reader of it would see that it seems to be almost unrealisitically negative and that its’ author has taken great and possibly unnecessary pains to elaborate further with additional derogatory remarks, some of which are personal and untrue.

I have had no wish to denegrate my ex-employer nor re-live the events of the past; I named them as a referee, knowing that I had had an unpleasant experience there but not expecting the attitude towards me to linger and be intended to cause me further harm.
I am sure that you are well aware that any reference is an opinion and wonder if that was considered when this reference was compared to the other one that was sent to you. In addition, I am attaching:
A copy of the 3 month probationary review from Xxxxxxxx – and would ask that you consider the difference between this and the reference.
A copy of a reference from Xxxx Xxxxxxxx, to whom I reported during my four years at Campbells/Xxxxxxx Xxxxx. Again, I would ask that you compare this to the reference from Xxxxxxxx.
Additionally, I attach a list of my comments regarding the job at Xxxxxxxx.

I understand that of course, they can express an opinion and, as potential employers in a caring profession, you are entitled to believe what is written. I fear that this reference overshadowed anything positive that I had presented or that you had been told. The argument could well be that they believed that there is some kind of duty to “warn” any new employer and that you as such an employer have responsibility to those that you care for. The reference was designed to ruin this opportunity and it was successful; the bullying did not end in December it would seem.

To repeat, I have little desire to recall or re-visit my time there. It evidently continues to have an effect.


(List)
After three months, the work had become easy and routine; I asked for additional work.
Had I not been very competent, I would not have been able to take on any more work – and nor would it have been sanctioned.
The additional work took the form of what was effectively another full-time job as well as my original work, which still needed to be done.
The additional work was for a client who was historically very demanding and who had previously had a person dedicated solely to them.
I was not allowed to make any suggestions to streamline or improve systems; if I did, I was shouted and sworn at.
This type of work had previously been covered by a shift system; this was the first time that it was “only” 9-5. This caused some problems in terms of availability of cover.
I was never late onto the site, but due to location (through various offices), I may have been late to ‘clock on’ – I also did forget to ‘clock out’ when I left late but also became afraid to as I was prohibited from staying late.
The workload required longer hours and commitment; if I stayed late, that would be the reason, not to “rectify mistakes”.
If any minor (keying errors equalling 99.95% accuracy) mistakes occurred, they were due to work-load and no other reason.
I made one significant mistake which need not have happened; working as part of a Supply Chain should have ensured that it didn’t, but I was held entirely responsible."

I have deliberately kept away from blaming them for not appointing me and also from any reference to the action that I shall be taking against ex-employer. I know it's probably a bit sloppy and a tad too personal but I also want them to remember that they are actually dealing with a person who not so long ago they wanted to have working for them.

I've got a headache now - apologies if my ranting gives one to anyone else.
x

therealdessie

G2C wrote:

While I appreciate that it is not possible for you to confirm that the conditional offer I received was withdrawn due to the reference received from Xxxxxxxx, I have now been given a copy of the reference and can see why the decision would have been taken.

I also appreciate that you may find it difficult to confirm the reasoning given the sensitive nature of this issue, however I would ask for consideration of the following points –

1) I had been interviewed and considered suitable for the role (confirmed via....)
2) I had not yet undergone any kind of medical assessment
3) The requested CRB check had not yet been returned
4) You received a contrasting reference from xxxxxx

I have no wish to denegrate my ex-employer; I named them as a referee knowing that I had had an unpleasant experience there but not expecting the final part of the time I had there to be reflected alone in the rerefence provided - rather that they would consider the entire term. As you are no doubt aware, references can be an individual opinion of the writer and wonder if this was given proper consideration in comparing the reference was to the other one provided.

In addition, I am attaching:

Copy of the 3 month probationary review from Xxxxxxxx – and would ask that you consider the difference between this and the reference from xxxxxxx
Copy of a reference from Xxxx Xxxxxxxx, to whom I reported during my four years at Campbells/Xxxxxxx Xxxxx

I understand that of course my previous employer can express an opinion, and as responsible managers in a caring profession you are entitled to believe what is written and act accordingly in the interest of your patients. I am concerned that this reference may have overshadowed anything positive that I had presented during our meeting and hope to rectify that impression with the documents provided - to reiterate, I am still very interested in this position and feel I have a lot to offer you in this role.

I hope that in light of the enclosed statements you would be willing to consider a further meeting with me, where you can re-assess my suitability for the position. This will of course will allow time for the CRB check to be returned, which will be clean in any case.

I look forward to your considered response, and thank you for your time

• Formalised some of the text
• Removed some emotional parts
• Took out the list of complaints against the ex-employer
• Tried to end the letter on a good note

Hope some of this is of use

LittleVoice

Hi

I think the general thrust of the letter is good though I would not include the list of your comments on the previous job. I would spell out a request for them to re-consider - unless the job was a one-off with nothing similar likely to crop up this year. (If there is nothing likely to arise soon, I would normally suggest it might not be worth bothering to write but you never know whether the person who was/is about to be appointed will last and it would be a pity to miss out a second time.)

And a grammatical point (do forgive me!) - re "negative and that its’ author", "its" is already possessive of "it" and therefore no apostrophe should be used.

Best wishes

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, first (((hugs))) for getting this far, it is horrible having to rake up these things.

Secondly, here are my comments. I make them as a retired employment lawyer who has seen this happen loads of times, and also as a former manager who was involved in interviews and selection, including consideration of references.

My suggested amendments are in red. I know in your letter you have not asked them to review their decision, but it might be worth a shot. If you do not want to do this, you do need to at least say what you do want/or what you wish to achieve.

Got2change wrote: »

"
I write with reference to your letter of [date] informing me of your decision to withdraw the conditional offer of employment with your company in the position of [job title].

Whilst I accept that you may be unable to confirm the reason for withdrawing the conditional offer, I have now obtained a copy of the reference provided by Xxxxx, and can see that this alone would probably have resulted in the offer being withdrawn. Given that :-
1) Following the interview on [date] you considered me to be sufficiently suitable to make a conditional offer of employment
2) I had not yet undergone any kind of medical assessment;
3) The requested CRB check (which would be “clear”) had not yet been returned;
4) My second referee provided a good reference;
there seems to be little grounds to indicate any other reason for the withdrawal.

Having had the opportunity to consider the reference, I have to say that it is worryingly unbalanced and highly subjective. It most certainly is not factually fair, true, or accurate. In this regard I am enclosing copies of the following documents, and would ask that you consider the difference between these documents and the reference given by Xxxxxxxxxxx:-

• The 3 month probationary review from Xxxxxxxx, dated [date]
  
• A reference dated [date] from Xxxx Xxxxxxxx, to whom I reported during my four years at Campbells/Xxxxxxx Xxxxx.

During my time at Xxxxx I was subjected to a campaign of bullying and harassment by a member of staff, who ultimately took the decision to dismiss me. It would seem that the unpleasantness that I experienced during my time with Xxxxx extends to the provision of references and continues to have an adverse effect on my ability to put the experience behind me. I very much regret that this has resulted in the decision to withdraw the offer of a post with your company and, in the light of the matters set out in this letter, would be grateful if you would reconsider your position.

Yours etc

Edited to add that the above comments were posted while I was writing my reply. The suggestion of a further meeting is definitely worth considering as a way forward. Perhaps you can come up with a letter taking bits from all suggestions that puts across what you want to say? I agree with the others that you should leave out the list of comments.