Bad Reference - oh yes they can

asea

Got2change wrote: »

Hi "mrcow" - thanks for what you say and sorry to hear of your experiences. I am discovering that there are some truly s**tty employers out there; I must have led a very sheltered life.

As I write this, I can see out of the corner of my eye a sentence in the letter from ex-employers, and I quote "I have reviewed the reference sent to XXXXX and I believe it is a fair and factual reference". O.M.G.
Nothing could have been more designed to make sure that I was not offered a job on the strength of it (or worse still in this case, have a job I was looking forward to - and NEEDED - taken away........).

Have to say ACAS not too much help and said I should speak to someone legally; local Solicitor has told me that it it most likely to be an employment law issue as would cost too much to sue for "defamation of character". No employment law solicitors in my nearest (fairly small) town so looking further afield, have found one in my hometown (25 miles away) who will tell me if I have a case (for £139.00 an hour).

I really really want to pursue them for this; how do I find the stamina though.

Do you have a legal centre nearby? There may be lawyers who will look at the case pro bono for you. Good luck - they sound like utter idiots!

Idiophreak

Reggie_Rebel wrote: »

Attendance - Excellent
Realibility/timekeeping - Poor

I would have thought those two would have made any potential employer doubt the creedence of the reference.

That jumped out at me, too..."Has brilliant attendance, but is always late"...errr...what?

Anyway, found this link, OP - might be worth a scan...

http://www.totaljobs.com/Contents/Editorial/Whatcanidoaboutabadreference.html

liney

Idiophreak wrote: »

That jumped out at me, too..."Has brilliant attendance, but is always late"...errr...what?

Anyway, found this link, OP - might be worth a scan...

http://www.totaljobs.com/Contents/Editorial/Whatcanidoaboutabadreference.html

He's here every day but never on time = attendance excellent, and timekeeping poor. I don't think that is an unreasonable statement to make.

At least they didn't 'decline to give this individual a reference' which is generally seen as code for gross misconduct.

The way i understood bad references is that as long as the information you give is factual, and not of the 'in my opinion' nature, you can say whatever you like. I'm not saying it is the case here, but as an employer it think you are entltled to know if you are about to employ a 'duff en'. There appears to be alot of misunderstands about the whole thing though which is why unfortunately some companies only confirm dates.

therealdessie

Get over it.

I'm joking! Don't hit me!!



Seriously though, you need to redress this balance. Right now your old employers are being - forgive the phrase - a bunch of p****s and need setting straight. They're winning right now because every time they send one of their vile little letters they chip away at you again, and you need to stop that - so here's what you need to do:

1) Assemble all of your appraisal documents, since you mentioned that you had a good one.
2) Contact them again - ignore the crap about not contacting them - and ask them to justify the reasons they wrote what they did in the document in specific context of documented incidents in the office, and have them confirm in writing that the reference was intended as a reflection of the work you did over the entire period of time. Also confirm for them the mistakes they made in the reference over your name and the dates - send this recorded delivery. No e-mails! When you write the letter, save it and wait an hour before printing it, then you can be more critical in the editing and take out any emotional parts.
3) In any communication with them make it clear that you have a right to contact them with regards this unresolved issue and that you will not accept the tone of their letters - remember they are NOT your employer any more, you can talk down to them as much as they have to you.
4) Contact ACAS, CAB and your local Law Centre: http://www.lawcentres.org.uk, there are plenty of lawyers who will be happy to drop a letter to these vipers if only to "fight the good fight".
5) Let us know who the old employers are, and we'll all pay them a visit with our hobnail boots on

Got2change

Phew - you go out for a little while and wow.....!

Thank you for what seems like a general consensus of support from all of you.

The old me would not have taken this lying down - and maybe even this new me won't. All of the Legal signposts are much appreiated and I shall research in a little bit.

Although Excellent Attendance just seem at odds with Poor Reliability/Timekeeping - it is fair point that I was there every day but - according to them - late to arrive and late to leave. Here's another quote from the reference:

Additional comments:

" Gg2c was in an hourly paid role which required her to clock in and out, she was often late but often by minutes. G2c struggles in the role which led to her making mistakes, rather than ask for help, she tried to resolve the issues herself. She would stay late into the evenings (this may have been a contributory factor in her coming in late)."

It makes me look bad, I know but I admit now and I did then that I had never had a "clocking in" job since my Saturday job 30 years ago and the location of the clock was through reception and the IT office; I lost count of how many times I was waylaid on my way. Trust me, the latest I clocked in was 9:05. I was technically late - 9:15 - on one occasion, and then I was met with "Afternoon" (not jokingly) from Line Manager. Leaving was a different matter; to explain:

I was single-handedly responsible for the computer side of all deliveries in, all deliveries out, every order to various outlets (Argos, ToyRUs, Woolworths etc etc) throughout UK and NI for - wait for it - a toy supplier (historically a demanding customer) in the run up to Christmas. It wasn't even the account I was taken on to handle - or at least it hadn't been covered by the previous person. My initial - and continuing - role was to deal with a few smaller customers who were no less demanding and in fact one of them was my ex-employer (Campbell's but under new ownership). I was given the additional work because they knew that I had a good grip on the smaller accounts within two months. Again, my fault for saying "Bring it on" - which I do actually remember doing.

I left late because, although a temp was taken on (part-time) to help, they moved him for holiday cover for another customer. I was told that I couldn't stay after 5:00 without permission - but everyone else went at 4:00; there was no-one to ask if I could stay. I didn't make mistakes - there weren't enough hours in the bleeping day. I didn't actually mind, I didn't ask for overtime pay - I just wanted to do a good job.

I have just looked at the form again; she has actually made a big hoo-ha about the clocking in a stuff simply because the Additional Comments box is below the Realibility/Timekeeping one. It doesn't actually mean that they wanted elaboration on the "Poor" comment for that aspect. I honestly can't get my breath with this.....

I have been driving home thinking precisely what has been suggested - I do actually have a copy of the reference that my Director gave me before he was made redundant; that, together with a copy of the UCAS reference that his predecessor gave me and a copy of the 3 month probationary review from ex-employer - will be going to the new (now not) employer along with a letter to question as nicely as I can what their thought processes were when they put this reference alongside the other one (which I have been told - by the referee - sings my praises to the nth degree)?

I am posting this an then re-reading all comments and suggestions on here again - sorry to not quote and refer to individually: I would get myself in a tangle. I wanted to take them to a tribunal (length of service was an issue) when they fired me - as Ive already mentioned. You know what? If I'd known about this forum then, I might not have felt so alone.

xxx

Got2change

therealdessie wrote: »

5) Let us know who the old employers are, and we'll all pay them a visit with our hobnail boots on

Ooooh please please please do.

I wish naming and shaming was allowed,
I really do....

(I am calmly ignoring the joking "Get over it")


x

Dill

They sound like a pretty nasty bunch, G2C. Pursue it if necessary, but please don't tie yourself up in knots over it.
If it comes to it, you may well be able to just skip that part of your work history when it comes to applying for future jobs, as it was only a few months that you worked there.
All the best:)

therealdessie

I'm glad to see that you're positively lining up the "good documents" and that you haven't given up with the new employer. You can always spin that stuff - why not post the draft letter on here and we can add to it if you like?

Got2change

Just been out again -

Got the documents together - am now going to work on the letter.
I will be back - probably tomorrow - with the letter; this time the draft will be posted for comments rather than actual after being sent

Numbers noted for nearest Law Centres, not so local CAB (nearest doesn't help my postcode) and a call back placed with CLS.

Dill - you're right though, I must not (repeat to self Must Not) tie myself up in knots, I can feel myself heading that way though. They aren't worth it and for sure will never be granted the privelege of expressing their OPINION about me ever again.

My CV has already been tweaked; in terms of my employment history, they no longer exist. Six months of my life I shan't get back. But the last 18 months to explain.

Why the hell they couldn't just tick the Acceptable/Fair boxes and leave the Optional Additional Comments empty is beyond me. Even then - OK, I was a s**t (in ther opinion) Warehouse Clerk; would that really have made me a bad Support Worker to Downs Syndrome. I mean.........

x

Got2change

.... It is so hard to roll over and play dead - but maybe that's what I should do?

I have spoken to -
Chesterfield Law Centre - and
Community Legal Service.

I suppose I just want to get my own way (not that I'm sure what that would actually be) and hear only good things about me; which is ridiculous when these people don't know me and certainly don't know the full story.

As I give them a brief synopsis of how I got to where I am, I feel myself literally slumping and sinking as I tell them.... (in a nutsell)...

How old I am
The job I did
That I got fired from said job
My circumstances now

All it leads anyone to think is "You LOOOOser" - and that's how I feel.
I end up unable to string a sentence together - took me ages to think of the word "deduce" this morning - and feeling totally inadequate and stupid.

It is no reflection on the people that I spoke to, they are doing a great job -it's just me; I believe what has been said and written about me and I can't shrug it off.