Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG · 9 January 2011 at 11:25PM

Oil supplier fleeces OAPs

"The country's largest home heating oil supplier has pushed up its prices during Britain's record cold spell with the help of a supposedly independent price comparison website, which it owns.

Its site, boilerjuice.com claims to find the "cheapest" price in any area, yet last week its best deals were up to 65% higher than the rates charged by genuine independents.

And investigation by the Sunday Times has found some users of the site, including elderly customers, have seen prices double recently while the commodity price of kerosene has gone up by less than 10% since November.

The firm, DCC Energy, based in Dublin, faces the threat of and Office of Fair Trading enquiry after complaints.

Last week the best price found by boilerjuice.com in West Cornwall for an urgent 500-litre delivery was £522 from an unnamed supplier. An independent firm in Redruth, Consols Oils, was charging £317.

In West Sussex last month, DCC-owned Souther Counties Fuels and boilerjuice.com were both quoting prices of 75p-95p a litre for delivery within 5 days. An independent supplier quoted less than 56p a litre and delivered within the week. [continues...]"

Full story in The Sunday Times of 9th January 2011

Why am I posting this here? This is an LPG thread, surely?

Well, the interesting thing is "The firm, DCC Energy, based in Dublin" also happen to be "The firm" that is the parent company of our beloved Flogas! What's more, several Oil companies, including Emo Oil, Kane Fuels and Cawoods Oil are themselves subsidiaries of Flogas.

Oh, and if you are planning to use an "independent" LPG supplier, check just how independent they really are. I was most surprised to discover just this week that Budget Gas of Telford and West Wales Gas of Llandysul are in fact wholly owned by Calor.

Draw your own conclusions!

Janners · 10 January 2011 at 12:18AM

Just finished reading this thread from the start and I'm so glad I did!! Sorry Littlevermin I didn't see your post until just now, but actioned your PM

Will post up details in my area (Notts/Lincs border) tomorrow after I've rung around.
Night all.

LittleVermin · 10 January 2011 at 12:40AM

Janners wrote: »

Just finished reading this thread from the start and I'm so glad I did!!

Night all.

LittleVermin · 10 January 2011 at 12:57AM

Janners wrote: »

Will post up details in my area (Notts/Lincs border) tomorrow after I've rung around.

I wonder if it would be worth your while giving Mole Valley Farmers a ring? For an annual memership fee of £10 you can join a fuel buying consortium they run. mixit1 was paying Flogas 45ppl but on joining MVF the price dropped to 30ppl.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=38318292&postcount=300

Mole Valley Farmers is based in the SW and S Wales (but have just bought another farmers' co-op in SE England). They do NOT appear on a list of potential LPG suppliers for my postcode (and they've got a store just a few miles away). Maybe anyone in rural UK can join them? Maybe anyone can join them?

LittleVermin · 10 January 2011 at 3:49AM

Speakeasy wrote: »

Came across this some time ago. Difficult to know what to believe these days and what to do for the best. Our ancestors must have been an unhealthy lot. I have not got round to reading it in detail:

burningissues.org (I am not allowed to put in links)

But when I found the statement below on the front page of www.burningissues.org it lost all credibility:

All combustion results in very fine micro particulates and there is no safe level of this asbestos sized, dangerous air pollutant. Solid fuels, such as pellets and especially wood, produce many orders of magnitude more smoke & fine particulate air pollutants than cleaner fuels.

HateLPG · 10 January 2011 at 8:40AM

LittleVermin wrote: »

Mole Valley Farmers is based in the SW and S Wales (but have just bought another farmers' co-op in SE England). They do NOT appear on a list of potential LPG suppliers for my postcode (and they've got a store just a few miles away). Maybe anyone in rural UK can join them? Maybe anyone can join them?

(my bold)

Be aware The ukplg site lists only Suppliers who are (presumably fully paid up) members of uklpg. While appearing to be fairly comprehensive, this will not necessarily list all LPG suppliers in any given area (only those who are members) so additional research may be rewarded. As always, with any web based price comparison or search tool, retain a degree of scepticism towards the results!

If anyone finds, or knows of non-uklpg suppliers in their area, it might help to post details here. MVF is one. I am also aware of Innergy, based in Leeds (http://www.innergylpg.co.uk/) although I have never dealt with them, so I can't vouch for them one way or the other.

Happy hunting :-)

HateLPG · 10 January 2011 at 8:59AM

Speakeasy wrote: »

Came across this some time ago. Difficult to know what to believe these days and what to do for the best. Our ancestors must have been an unhealthy lot. I have not got round to reading it in detail:

burningissues.org (I am not allowed to put in links)

A lot of us burn wood as a backup including potentially me (open fire).

As with so many sites like this, they have an agenda. That is not, in and of itself a bad thing, provided the reader is aware of that agenda, and therefore able to make a balanced and informed assessment of what is on the site. In the case of burningissues, they make no secret of it. From their "About Us" page:

Burning Issues is a project of Clean Air Revival, Inc., a 501C-3 non profit educational organization. Clean Air Revival, Inc. is registered with the Registry of Charitable Trusts in the State of California. Our organization number is #1686895.

[...]

Burning Issues has an international membership and was founded by Mary J. Rozenberg, at the Loma Prieta Chapter of the Sierra Club Clean Air Committee in 1987. It is devoted to the improvement of ambient air quality through the reduction of Particulate Pollution, i. e., solid particulate matter less than 2.5 microns in diameter.

Of course, they do nothing to help their cause by making sweeping statements such as that highlighted by LittleVermin. Any GCSE chemistry student will be able to tell you that not all combustion neccesarily results in the release of particulates (unless, of course, you count pure water condensate as a particulate!)

bobhawke · 10 January 2011 at 10:03AM

HateLPG wrote: »

Why am I posting this here? This is an LPG thread, surely?

Well, the interesting thing is "The firm, DCC Energy, based in Dublin" also happen to be "The firm" that is the parent company of our beloved Flogas! What's more, several Oil companies, including Emo Oil, Kane Fuels and Cawoods Oil are themselves subsidiaries of Flogas.

Oh, and if you are planning to use an "independent" LPG supplier, check just how independent they really are. I was most surprised to discover just this week that Budget Gas of Telford and West Wales Gas of Llandysul are in fact wholly owned by Calor.

Draw your own conclusions!

They own a LOT of fuel companies. In Scotland the big ones that they bought include Brogan's fuels, Scottish Fuels, Baxter Johntson, Emo Fuel, Rix Petroleum.
I know there was some ruling to do with the islands because it would have meant dcc were the only ones supplying the area.

HateLPG · 10 January 2011 at 10:15AM

bobhawke wrote: »

They own a LOT of fuel companies. In Scotland the big ones that they bought include Brogan's fuels, Scottish Fuels, Baxter Johntson, Emo Fuel, Rix Petroleum.

I know - I just thought the FULL list was a bit long to post on an LPG thread

According to the Sunday Times article, "DCC controls about 14% of the oil distribution Market in Britain and is expanding fast". Be afraid. Be very afraid!!!

LittleVermin · 10 January 2011 at 1:16PM

But when I found the statement below on the front page of www.burningissues.org it lost all credibility:

All combustion results in very fine micro particulates and there is no safe level of this asbestos sized, dangerous air pollutant. Solid fuels, such as pellets and especially wood, produce many orders of magnitude more smoke & fine particulate air pollutants than cleaner fuels.

(my bold)

Apologies, it was not the sweeping statement but the mention of ASBESTOS, a mineral (NOT a size!) with a nasty effect on human lungs (asbestosis). Asbestos minerals have a fibrous structure and air-borne tiny fibres act as stilettos, piercing the air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs, leading to cancer many years later - usually in men working in lagging on ships, power stations, etc. (I'm not a doctor - just a geologist - but that's my understanding of how asbestos acts). The authors of the website could have mentioned SILICA - another nasty mineral when air-borne, leading to silicosis of quarrymen, miners, etc (but also silica forms most beach sand for making sand castles) - or even FLOUR, not a mineral of course, but the cause of 'baker's lung', and of rather nice stuff like cakes. You get my drift.

So, yes, of course, they have an agenda, but they are using scare tactics mixed in with some 'sciencey' sounding stuff ("micro particulates"). Gillian McKeith (to give her full medical title) is now very well-known for producing scientific b*llsh*t - but in her case to sell herself and her products. In the UK we can usually get this stuff removed, by complaining to the Advertising Standards Authority, but they have had no remit over websites (this changes in April this year).

Apologies for long post - and seemingly off topic, and for reposting.

Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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