Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

CircuitW1zard

Sorting_Hat said:

CircuitW1zard said:

Hi All,
I'm at the point where my estates 2 year contract is expiring. We are paying 39ppl at the moment. Could I get a view from you all as to what the current rates are you are all getting from your suppliers and quotes? I'm not sure where the market sits at the moment and if prices are higher or lower.

 Did you know the rules for metered estates have changed/are changing?

Apologies if this is old hat to everyone here.

1. All customers on a metered estate being supplied by the same tanks will be offered the same tariff options on new metered estate contracts from 01/01/2021

2. To align all contract end dates from 31/12/2020. From this point any new contract on a metered estate will have an exclusive supply term which is aligned to the latest existing contract on said estate, this will be no later that 31/12/2022

3.From 31/12/2022 suppliers will permit switching of estates where less than 10% of residents or 1 resident where less than 10 homes are in an exclusive supply term providing 100% of residents agree to switch suppliers.

4.The maximum time vlength for switching a metered estate will be 42 days from the 1/1/2021

So no 1 person can hold up the switch as used to be the case.

That's great that they've cleared up the rules a bit. Luckily I've managed to get the estate onto a co-terminus agreement for the last 4 years so we all finish contract on the same day. We're located in Berkshire if that helps with regional pricing and we have around 30 houses on the estate.

GWebster39

LittleVermin said:

GWebster39 said:

Hello,

I'm new to this forum but wonder if anyone can help and advise.  <...>

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks Gemma

Hi Gemma, welcome to the forum! Glad you found us as there are NO comparison sites ....so people posting what they are paying (both for gas and tank rental) and what offers they get when their 2 year contracts near their end is the best and only substitute for a comparison site. Welcome to the wonderful world of bulk LPG (bit like a mushroom-growing shed)!

Sorting_Hat has posted about finding out the owner of the tank (I hope the safety notice is still there!). I'd ask the tank owner when the tank was last tested (above-ground tanks are tested every 10 years - underground more frequently, I believe).

You do NOT have a contract with the tank owner. As the new owner of the property you can sign a contract with the tank owner and be supplied by them ....OR you can switch supplier...which might save you a lot of money! Or it might not! The majors seem to send out contracts for new owners to sign..which locks you in for 2 years. NO, you can switch suppliers ...and the new supplier buys the tank off the former supplier.

Maybe tell us the first part of your postcode, please? Or the county you live in. There are some good local suppliers (like HBS) which charge low prices. And some excellent local suppliers with real humans whose names you'll get to recognise! if you tell us where you live :forum members can help you here. Suppliers for your postcode can be found on the LPG trade site 

Tank rental for an underground tank ranges from around £60 (that's exceptional!) to around £130. 

All suppliers have to give a quote over the phone... but that's subject to inspection. So before anyone comes to inspect make sure there are no overhanging trees, and the delivery driver can see the tank top, etc.

There are one or two middlemen - e.g. LPG Save who can get good deals out of Flogas (he used to work for them!) ...but (probably!) only if you are a potential new customer! You can find these people by searching...

Please post all the offers you get! That's how this forum stays helpful to forum members and browsers!

Cheers!

Hello,

Thanks for your really helpful information.  I am unable to find any safety notices on the tank or point of entry in to the house.

I have had a reply from flogas today though who just sent me through a consumer agreement to sign, although the email was entitled change of owner.  They had the details of the tank (size, underground etc) but no other communication from them from when I first enquired about action for house move.  I'm not going to sign this because I worry it'll tie me. They have quoted 53.95 ppl (+VAT) and 41p per day (+VAT) standing charge.  Both these seem extremely high from what you have said.

I live in Mid Cheshire, CW6 if anyone knows of anywhere local that they would recommend.

Thanks again

Gemma

LittleVermin

GWebster39 said:

<.....>

Please post all the offers you get! That's how this forum stays helpful to forum members and browsers!

Cheers!

Hello,

Thanks for your really helpful information.  I am unable to find any safety notices on the tank or point of entry in to the house.

I have had a reply from flogas today though who just sent me through a consumer agreement to sign, although the email was entitled change of owner.  They had the details of the tank (size, underground etc) but no other communication from them from when I first enquired about action for house move.  I'm not going to sign this because I worry it'll tie me. They have quoted 53.95 ppl (+VAT) and 41p per day (+VAT) standing charge.  Both these seem extremely high from what you have said.

I live in Mid Cheshire, CW6 if anyone knows of anywhere local that they would recommend.

Thanks again

Gemma

Hi Gemma, 

Glad it helped.

OK, so you can assume Flogas owns the tank.

And I wrote:

The majors seem to send out contracts for new owners to sign..which locks you in for 2 years. NO, you can switch suppliers ...and the new supplier buys the tank off the former supplier.

This is EXACTLY what Flogas has done. Sadly this tactic catches many people ...and they are tied in for 2 years.

The price is very high (Flogas and Calor have many loyal customers on such prices - and higher). Tell Flogas you are getting prices from other suppliers. They will probably make you a better offer!

The tank rental - 41p p/d is £149.65 a year - is high.

Suppliers for your postcode seem to be the majors (Calor, Flogas,and Avantigas) and two independents (Premier and Cambrian Gas). Check here: https://www.liquidgasuk.org If you use the search facility on this forum you may find comments on these indies. Or else just Google them and hope!

Sometimes middlemen will get you a good price - there are several such people. Another potential source of good prices is farmers' co-ops - you do not necessarily have to be a farmer ... or even breed pigs, pygmy pigs, guinea pigs  or budgerigars. Try Woldlink https://www.woldlink.co.uk/ - they subcontract but were offering excellent prices (I don't know if this is the case now). Then there's Extrafuel https://www.extrafuel.co.uk/ - the fixed price on their website is less than the price Flogas has quoted. I suggest you give them a ring ... you might well do better than that price [they are my supplier - and subcontract for deliveries here in Cornwall to Flogas. Arrangement has worked well for several 2 yr contracts].

Sometimes people have had trouble transferring underground tanks. If Flogas tells you your tank is non-compliant but they have been filling it because of "grandfather rights" that's hogwash - there are NO 'grandfather rights' with LPG tanks (@HateLPG checked this with HSE some years back ...there's a post in this forum) so they (Flogas) need to make it compliant - at their expense. Several people on this forum have successfully insisted the faults are rectified (and then people can switch ..after 2 years). Before EACH delivery the tanker driver has to tick a box saying he has inspected for safety.

Final word.....profits for intermediaries? Some years ago when Woldlink were charging customers 20ppl the subcontractor (Flogas) was being paid 14ppl by Woldlink! AND Flogas were doing all the account admin! How do we know? Someone at Woldlink spilled the beans to someone on this forum....(who told someone else, in a private message ....).

Good luck - and please us posted about your adventures in bulk LPG mushrooms-in-the-dark land. I hope you'll all be warm and toasty this winter.

Cheers - from Verminland!

J_B

GWebster39 said:

I live in Mid Cheshire, CW6 if anyone knows of anywhere local that they would recommend.

Back in the day, we had dealings with Camgas who didn't seem too bad in a sea of sharks!

Bethmiss

Morning Everybody
Going back to postings of 14th September: I am definitely out of contract, and could shop around for quotes. However, for various reasons I can't really go into, I'm going to stay with existing company meantime. Thank you all.

heather8

I have been trying to get a gas delivery for nearly month, I’ve sent three emails and made two phone calls, one call I left a message and the other I actually managed to speak to someone.  I am somewhat confused, as my contract is with Robinson’s LPG based in Harrogate, but the sticker on the tank says Northern Energy.  If Robinsons have been taken over I haven’t received a letter.  Anyone local to me know what is going on?

thozza

heather8 said:

I have been trying to get a gas delivery for nearly month, I’ve sent three emails and made two phone calls, one call I left a message and the other I actually managed to speak to someone.  I am somewhat confused, as my contract is with Robinson’s LPG based in Harrogate, but the sticker on the tank says Northern Energy.  If Robinsons have been taken over I haven’t received a letter.  Anyone local to me know what is going on?

Robinsons and Northern Energy are separate companies operating from the same building, if your contract is with Robinsons then they are responsible for organising your delivery. 

Northern Energy are still delivering as we recently had a top up. 

heather8

thozza said:

heather8 said:

I have been trying to get a gas delivery for nearly month, I’ve sent three emails and made two phone calls, one call I left a message and the other I actually managed to speak to someone.  I am somewhat confused, as my contract is with Robinson’s LPG based in Harrogate, but the sticker on the tank says Northern Energy.  If Robinsons have been taken over I haven’t received a letter.  Anyone local to me know what is going on?

Robinsons and Northern Energy are separate companies operating from the same building, if your contract is with Robinsons then they are responsible for organising your delivery. 

Northern Energy are still delivering as we recently had a top up. 

Thanks, I will try again on Monday to make contact and ask why I have a Northern Energy sticker on my tank.

philtrick123

Hi all,

My 2 year contract with Flogas is coming to an end in the next couple of months- currently 36.4ppl + VAT fixed for 2 years.
I'm concerned by the current gas/energy 'crisis' that's plastered across the news. Is LPG also affected?- I'm assuming yes. Some smaller energy companies are going bust because I assume they can't sustain the already agreed fixed prices with customers.
How is this going to affect my renewal price?
I don't want to commit to a high 2 year price, only for it to drop a few months later.
Can I fill up my bulk tank just before contract end and then not resign for 2 years, on the hope that prices will drop? I presume flogas would still fill my tank but at some £££ rate.

Interested to get your thoughts.
Also thinking about the cost benefits of changing our 12 year old lpg combi for a hybrid lpg/air source boiler. We have UFH downstairs, but still need to do the sums- any thoughts on this if LPG prices are going up. 

JerryW

philtrick123 said:

Hi all,

My 2 year contract with Flogas is coming to an end in the next couple of months- currently 36.4ppl + VAT fixed for 2 years.
I'm concerned by the current gas/energy 'crisis' that's plastered across the news. Is LPG also affected?- I'm assuming yes. Some smaller energy companies are going bust because I assume they can't sustain the already agreed fixed prices with customers.
How is this going to affect my renewal price?
I don't want to commit to a high 2 year price, only for it to drop a few months later.
Can I fill up my bulk tank just before contract end and then not resign for 2 years, on the hope that prices will drop? I presume flogas would still fill my tank but at some £££ rate.

Interested to get your thoughts.
Also thinking about the cost benefits of changing our 12 year old lpg combi for a hybrid lpg/air source boiler. We have UFH downstairs, but still need to do the sums- any thoughts on this if LPG prices are going up. 

Hi .. good questions. All power utility prices are linked to some extent, it is the nature of the marketplace. But roughly 40% of LPG is manufactured from crude oil and 60% from wet natural gas, so may not move in precisely the same way as household natural gas. I've been using it for almost 30 years now and the trend has been relentlessly up! My first fill cost 11p/l and that was just the normal Calor price at the time, not a negotiated one.

You can negotiate now for a new contract, no need to wait for it to expire.

you can continue to have Flogas fill the tank but out of contract the price will go up..

I would be interested in a link to the hybrid boiler you mention. I have a hybrid lpg/microchp boiler that generates electricity as well as heat .. but it is no longer on the market. My general advice would be to consume as few fossil fuel resources as you possibly can, for a number of reasons not just price