Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

JerryW

Presumably JGas own the tank? If so all you can practically do is swallow the increase or go elsewhere. You didn't say if you are in or out of contract, and if in, when it expires..

You could offer to take the tank off their hands, but in my view tank ownership is problematical. Tanks are supposed to be fully inspected every five years by a qualified engineer .. if you want to stir things up a little you could ask JGas when they last did this, and ask for a copy of the engineer's report. Also the age of the tank .. legally they have to be replaced every 30 years or less.

Sorting_Hat

Hello, just to flesh out tank tests and certificates.
LPG tanks are tested every 10 years be they above or underground.
The underground tanks have an additional more frequent  check that looks at the anodes that provide protection against corrosion due to their environment.
When a tank gets to the 20 year point it can be revalved and tested and then it is good until the next 10 year test and so on.
There are lots of tanks where the vessel is many years old but the valves and regulators are new.
Now since possession of the certificates is deemed to be proof of tank ownership they (the documents) are not shared with customers by the industry.

I hope that clarifies a little.
 

Sorting_Hat

In addition where a person owns their own tank then they can go to any LPG registered engineer to carry out the above tests that they pay for themselves and of course they then have their own certificates for their tank. Hence possession of these is that proof of ownership.
 

Bethmiss

Thank you JerryW and Sorting_Hat  for your advice and information.  I finally found the Test Record from 9th March 2017.  
   The tank was manufactured in November 1988. We didn't get it till at least 10 years after that. According to the 2017 Test Report, the Previous Test Date was 9/1/04, which seems rather a big gap to me. We'd have been with either MacGas, BP, or Flogas at that time.   Gauge Calibration Date is 18/4/16, so somebody must done something then. We moved to JGas in November 2016. The Engineer's Comments are "STEEL RISER PIPEWORK UPGRADE. REPLACED OLD STEEL RISERS AT TANK AND HOUSE WITH 25MM P.E POLYPIPE. JOINED ONTO EXISING U/GROUND 25MM P.E POLYPIPE. NEW REGULATORS AT TANK. NEW ECV FITTED AT WALL. TESTED UP TO ECV, ALL GAS TIGHT, OPENED ECV & TESTED INTO APPLIANCE. ALL GAS TIGHT. RE-ESTABLISHED GAS SUPPLY."
   I phoned JGas yesterday, and asked what I'm paying for in the Standing Charge. Answer: Tank rental and maintenance, and any issues with the tank. Driver does a visual check every time. I asked tank life, and she said 20 years, so I said ours was made in 1988 and, prior to JGas Test and work in 2017, the previous test was 2004. She seemed to be of the opinion that the tank being over 30 years old, let alone over 20, was more to do with Flogas than JGas! Not sure how that works.
  I've no idea how long she has been with JGas, but she also told me Standing Charge prices hadn't gone up in the time she'd been there, so I managed to point out that ours went up from £48 to £60 sometime between August and November 2019 - and we didn't get the letter notifying us.
  I realise I've no choice but to pay the SC, but I do feel JGas et al get a lot for doing very little.  Thanks for your help.

AdrianC

The standing charge is basically tank rental, as well as maintenance. Your current supplier own the tank. They are legally responsible for it.

You are free to buy and install your own tank, insure and maintain it - in return for saving £1.15 per week, then sign a supply-only contract with a gas company, proving the checks are up to date to them.

2004 to 2017 is 13 years - yes, more than 10, but not ridiculously so. It's been tested within the last 10 years, so is within certification.

A tank is not necessarily new at installation - but it will have been refurbished and fully tested at install.

You seem to be over-thinking and over-worrying about this.

JerryW

To be fair to the supplier (not my normal stance I admit!) there is a bit more behind the standing charge.

- They have to insure their installed stock against various perils

- They need a stock of tanks available for install, and storage for them

- And transport for installation of new and replacement tanks at customer site

- And testing facilities and refurbishment facilities

Calor replaced my tank about ten years ago with a newly refurbished one, as well as all of the pipework between the tank and the house. This took them a solid week, including use of a mole and a lot of swearing :-)

On the whole I don't think the standing charges represent much of a profit centre for suppliers, and I must be well on the plus side of the equation, myself ..

Mister_G

JerryW said:

To be fair to the supplier (not my normal stance I admit!) there is a bit more behind the standing charge.

- They have to insure their installed stock against various perils

- They need a stock of tanks available for install, and storage for them

- And transport for installation of new and replacement tanks at customer site

- And testing facilities and refurbishment facilities

Calor replaced my tank about ten years ago with a newly refurbished one, as well as all of the pipework between the tank and the house. This took them a solid week, including use of a mole and a lot of swearing :-)

On the whole I don't think the standing charges represent much of a profit centre for suppliers, and I must be well on the plus side of the equation, myself ..

Yes, likewise for me a few years ago.  Calor again, replacement new tank and 40m of pipe moled in.  Only took them two days, but not easy as we have a lot of flint!

They tried to put the ppl price up after this, so I left them for my local independent.  Price dropped from 45ppl to 30ppl. Currently sitting at 33ppl but no standing charges.

Bethmiss

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I don't think I'm over-thinking or over-worrying about this.  I do think that a £20 increase is quite a lot and, at the present time, it is a lot to me. Gas price at the moment is 40ppl, after a 4ppl rise at the beginning of this year.  

JerryW

Bethmiss said:

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I don't think I'm over-thinking or over-worrying about this.  I do think that a £20 increase is quite a lot and, at the present time, it is a lot to me. Gas price at the moment is 40ppl, after a 4ppl rise at the beginning of this year.  

You never did say when your contract is due for renewal .. come back then, meantime if you are in contract, you are stuck with it

Sorting_Hat

I would suggest the ownership if the tank needs clarification since the paperwork in your possession would point to you having owned the tank. Therefore no standing charge applies if it is your tank and also no contract would apply either.