Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

[Deleted User]

AdrianC wrote: »

Hi, all.

Thanks to everybody for their contribution to this thread - I've learnt a lot, very rapidly.

We've just exchanged today on a house in the Welsh borders (HR3), with a FloGas-labelled LPG tank in the garden. A nearly empty LPG tank. It's definitely out of any contract.

So. We're going to need to fill it, and sharpish, once we're moved in.

I went through the list of suppliers found on UKLPG's supplier search, and emailed them a bit over a week ago, all with the same email, giving our details and situation. Mole Valley Plus weren't on there, but got included thanks to this thread.

Of that lot...
FloGas, Lister, Avanti and Cardiff couldn't be bothered to reply.
Countrywide's email domain seems to be rather dead - several attempts all failed.
Calor quoted 48p/6mo fix or 49.9p/12mo fix with £150 gas free, plus 16.9p/day above ground or 24.57p/day below ground tank rental.
Mole Valley quoted 46.5p/unfixed, and ignored the request for tank rental prices.
Callow quoted 45p/unfixed, and a nice round £12/quarter rental.

Callow were also the only ones to point out the price was excluding 5% vat without being asked.

So - looks like Callow it'll be. Calor's freebie nearly swung it, but Callow's apparent general niceness and competence overcame that.

Honestly... I'd pop out to Argos, B&Q etc and get some plug in heaters, use the immersion then get the tank uplifted. Sorry to be blunt but ditching LPG was more off a joy than our first born.

LittleVermin

AdrianC wrote: »

................ We're going to need to fill it, and sharpish, once we're moved in.

I went through the list of suppliers found on UKLPG's supplier search, and emailed them a bit over a week ago, all with the same email, giving our details and situation. Mole Valley Plus weren't on there, but got included thanks to this thread.

Of that lot...
FloGas, Lister, Avanti and Cardiff couldn't be bothered to reply.
Countrywide's email domain seems to be rather dead - several attempts all failed.
Calor quoted 48p/6mo fix or 49.9p/12mo fix with £150 gas free, plus 16.9p/day above ground or 24.57p/day below ground tank rental.
Mole Valley quoted 46.5p/unfixed, and ignored the request for tank rental prices.
Callow quoted 45p/unfixed, and a nice round £12/quarter rental.

Callow were also the only ones to point out the price was excluding 5% vat without being asked.

So - looks like Callow it'll be. Calor's freebie nearly swung it, but Callow's apparent general niceness and competence overcame that.

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Honestly... ....get the tank uplifted. ...

Welcome to the forum! Glad you've found it useful - and thanks for the prices.

Firstly, if you want to take jeepjunkie's advice if you do it now Flogas will do it for free (quite likely they'll try to charge you ...but that's cuddly little Flo! You have NO contract with Flogas. Quote Unfair Trading Regs 2008 at them if necessary: they'll back off). If you sign a contract with a supplier you probably won't notice a nasty little clause that binds you to an uplift fee of £150-250ish - and rising blah blah - unless a new supplier does a tank switch).

Callow? You've probably found GrandadRob's endorsement of them from 18 months ago here? They sound good.

I'm surprised Cardiff Gas didn't come back to you. They're usually the cheapest of the independents (the majors just offer tempting initial prices to stop the independents getting business). Their price is 46ppl at present (but suspect it may drop) with tank rental at 20p per day (£73 p.a.). People post good things about them. You could also see if Lister will match the Malvern Hills deal (and that is monitored by MHDC) - I'm told others have done this. And Extra Fuel has a 12 month fix at 46ppl posted on its website.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters!

Oh yes, if the tank is newish you might want to consider buying it off Flogas. BUT only if it's newish, above-ground AND meets all current codes of practice (distance from walls, trees, fences, boundaries, dead squirrels, visibility from road, did I mention dead squirrels?, modern valves, etc, etc). Dead squirrels? Currently not in the Codes of Practice (I believe) but the CoP change - apparently in mysterious ways 'due to new HSE regs' (but see HSE's reply to HateLPG).

HateLPG

... here is the latest graph of wholesale pricing. I'm sure frankie, in particular will review this with interest.



[[STRIKE]The sharp-eyed among you will probably note the absence of any change in the quoted Cardiff Gas and Extra Fuel prices. This is not an oversight on my part: they are static for the simple reason that as of right now (10/04/2013 21:21) the prices on their respective websites haven't changed since March![/STRIKE]

Extra fuel price has now dropped in line with ANSI; The Cardiff Gas price quoted for April remains at 46ppl, as it has done since January;

Edited 19/4/2013]

thozza

Driving down the M180 this morning I passed a full sized Countrywide Farmers liveried lpg tanker which appeared to be brand new. I pass plenty on this stretch, but never a Countrywide before, is this a move to own supply in the north, as was under the impression that they used Aunt Flo?

thozza

AdrianC wrote: »

Of that lot...
FloGas, Lister, Avanti and Cardiff couldn't be bothered to reply.
Countrywide's email domain seems to be rather dead - several attempts all failed.

The first time I tried getting prices by email, I had a similar experience. The most recent time I just phoned them all which was significantly quicker and much more productive as under the regulations they are obliged to offer prices over the phone, it also gave me the opportunity to start negotiating immediately.

frankie

HateLPG wrote: »

... here is the latest graph of wholesale pricing. I'm sure frankie, in particular will review this with interest.

]

Yes, thanks again Hateplg. Calor still not got back to me about clarifying their letter.

Crazylegs

AdrianC wrote: »

Hi, all.

Thanks to everybody for their contribution to this thread - I've learnt a lot, very rapidly.

We've just exchanged today on a house in the Welsh borders (HR3), with a FloGas-labelled LPG tank in the garden. A nearly empty LPG tank. It's definitely out of any contract.

So. We're going to need to fill it, and sharpish, once we're moved in.

I went through the list of suppliers found on UKLPG's supplier search, and emailed them a bit over a week ago, all with the same email, giving our details and situation. Mole Valley Plus weren't on there, but got included thanks to this thread.

Of that lot...
FloGas, Lister, Avanti and Cardiff couldn't be bothered to reply.
Countrywide's email domain seems to be rather dead - several attempts all failed.


Hi Adrian,

Im sorry that you feel you have been let down by the service provided by Cardiff Gas. As a company, we at Cardiff Gas would like to express our sincere apologies and can only advise you that the computer servers, experienced techical faults which effected all e-mails, internet access and some telephone lines with in the last 7 days at Cardiff Gas.

These were fixed as of yesterday by BT and ourselves.

We are now operating normally and if possible we at Cardiff Gas would like the opportunity to respond to your queries if it is not to late as we our confident that our service is the best on the market.

Sorry again, Crazylegs - Cardiff Gas

HateLPG

Crazylegs wrote: »

...

As a company, we at Cardiff Gas would like to express our sincere apologies and can only advise you that the computer servers, experienced techical faults which effected all e-mails, internet access and some telephone lines with in the last 7 days at Cardiff Gas.

These were fixed as of yesterday by BT and ourselves.

We are now operating normally and if possible we at Cardiff Gas would like the opportunity to respond to your queries if it is not to late as we our confident that our service is the best on the market.

Sorry again, Crazylegs - Cardiff Gas

Thanks for the update - hopefully your April prices will be posted soon?

frankie

Calor price increase - update

Here is the reply I received from Calor:

Thank you for you enquiry. I am sorry you are thinking about leaving Calor in the near future.

It would help us to know why you are considering this option.

You are currently in agreement with Calor until 01 July 2013 it is after this date you are able to give notice.

The standard domestic tariff is 59.4 pence per litre. Your current price with Calor is 55.9 pence per litre.

An agreement was signed and returned in July 2007 with a reduced pence per litre of 45.4ppl for a fixed period. After the fixed period the price is reviewed every 6 months until eventually you reach the standard domestic rate. We also awarded you with a £50 gas credit for your loyalty.

When you have reached the end of the minimum term in July you will be in this position again and will be able to renegotiate your price as a long standing customer.

We value all our customers and would like the opportunity to retain your custom.

This is the first time of many requests to find out what the 'standard' tariff is.

The fact that they are going on about an agreement made in 2007 misses the point of new contracts being agreed since then on a 2 yearly basis, OR, do these renewals act as precisely that and do not act as a 'new' contract? Something to ask suppliers at the end of 2 years before signing up again.

They seem to claim that the pricing model is an increase every 6 months to get to the 'standard' tariff price by contract end. I think that if this is the case it should be stated in the contract because its the first time I've heard of this!

In any case the facts do not bear this out as I have gone longer than the 6 monthly period on occassion and aslo when prices are increased it is without exception because of Calor's claim of wordwide price increases (usual waffle!).

I will be replying to Calor on these issues and will keep you all posted.

Hope this makes some interseting reading for you all.

HateLPG

frankie wrote: »

You are currently in agreement with Calor until 01 July 2013 it is after this date you are able to give notice.

Naughty boy, Frankie - you're jumping the gun!

frankie wrote: »

The standard domestic tariff is 59.4 pence per litre. Your current price with Calor is 55.9 pence per litre.

An agreement was signed and returned in July 2007 with a reduced pence per litre of 45.4ppl for a fixed period. After the fixed period the price is reviewed every 6 months until eventually you reach the standard domestic rate.

Excuse me?

Pardon my language, but I think this is the biggest load of steaming codswallop I have EVER heard from an LPG supplier. I know Calor have in the past been guilty of taking a (ahem) "flexible" view of their own contract terms, but this one REALLY takes the biscuit!

I am, quite frankly, APPALLED by their response.

I would be interested to know whether you can find any reference to any such arrangement in your contract (I would be willing to bet a very substantial amount that you won't).

If your contract does indeed include such a clause, let me know and I'll happily and immediately withdraw these comments; If, on the other hand, it does not, this is a blatantly unfair, dishonest and illegal practice, no question. Methinks it is time to get started on writing some very firm and stern letters to Calor, your MP, your Solicitor, the OFT, the Consumer's Association, the Competition Commission, Trading Standards, Watchdog, the National Press and your Aunty Mavis etc etc.

Keep us posted