Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Retirer

Near Crewe, Calor contract renewal yesterday:
Calor offer: 2 yr contract: 38.9p/l for 6 mths then 3.5p/l cap on price change every 6 mths: £90/yr tank rental
Shell offer: 2 yr contract: 32p/l for 6 mths then 3p/l cap on price change every 6 mths: £60/yr tank rental
All + VAT
Amazing difference. Hope that this helps.

esprimo66

hello just phone discount gas to be told that if i have a tank supplied it is free the tank and installation but i have to pay £350 + vat for the fitting kit ??????
i will need to sign a 2yrs agreement and £65 per yrs for the tank
and then my tank will need to be filled which looks like a cost of 37ppl
so to have a tank installed i will be lookin with gas at around £1000
looks like i will be staying on bottles for a while ;-(

Splott_Boy

Many thanks to all posters above - useful info. We switched from oil to Calor LPG in October (for various reasons - primarily a decent replacement boiler and tank installation quote - yes I know they intend to claw this back from me over time !!).

For general info we were charged 39ppl in Nov, but this rose to 42ppl from 14/12 - in line with some other areas by the look of it. We are in South Wales near Cardiff.

I know I am stuck with Calor for 2 years, but is there anything I can do in the meantime - I see talk of 'contracts' here suggesting prices fixes of some sort ?

I'd assumed we'd be living with the prevailing fuel rate for now.

Also when we get close to the 2 years is there anything I need to do or watch out for to be able to switch or will the competition sort the changeover. Are all suppliers imposing 2 year contracts now going forward ?

longforgotten

Hi Splott Boy

All I did was to phone around and check prices and ask after tank rental. We were not in a contract when I did this so no worries there. We changed to Countrywide and they sorted out everything for us. Had to sign paperwork and they dealt with Flogas, all very easy.

When you start ringing around do give Countrywide a ring. So far so good, and I can't fault them. But when the 2 years is up I may well ring around to ensure they are still a competitive price.

HateLPG

SplottBoy -

Since you ask, check and understand your contract VERY carefully!

In my experience, Calor have a tendency to put the price up as and when they like, regardless of your contract terms, and unless you query it with them, you can end up paying WAY over the odds.

If I recall correctly, the NEW standard Calor contract says that they may NOT increase the price per litre by more than 3.5p (but might be 3p - was a while back I read it) in any six month period. Therefore, if you signed up in October, at 39ppl, Calor may not increase the price until six months have elapsed (i.e. until March 2010). If that is the case, challenge them IN WRITING. When they tried this one on me, it took four or five letters and they kept coming back and saying "we are really sorry, but the price has gone up and we have to pass it on". Then they tried a £50 Calor-bribe to get me to go away, but finally when they realised I wasn't going to let them get away with it, they relented and sorted out the overcharging retrospectively (was rather nice getting a refund of several hundred quid from Calor!)

Good Luck :-)

Steve17

I switched from Calor last August but still have the contract they wanted me to sign.
Calor can increase their price by as much as they like when they like, however if they increase by more than 3.5p in any 6 months period you can end the contract. Unfortunetly there is a catch to ending the contract, first you need to give 90 days notice in writing then you have to pay £250 for the uplift of the tank so in reality it would be cheaper to pay their increase until your contract runs out within 2 years then you can switch suppliers or get Calor to remove their tank for nothing.

HateLPG

Steve17

You could be right - but not convinced!

Under the new Competition Commission rules, the whole "uplift" thing should pretty much be a thing of the past (unless you are scrapping LPG altogether). In the "bad old days", a supplier would fill only their own tanks and suppliers would not pass ownership of a tank to one another. As a result, if you decided to change supplier, you *had* to change tanks and therefore an uplift charge was payable. This was one of the things that the CC saw as a serious bar to competition since it was a *major* dis-incentive to change supplier. Since April 2009, if you change supplier, ownership of the tank will simply be passed to your NEW supplier (using standard calculations as laid down by the CC to assess the value of the tank) ergo there is no uplift payable.

As far as the 90 days goes, it would be interesting to test this - I haven't got the new contract in front of me, but I strongly suspect that if the supplier increased the price by more than the stated amount, large parts of (if not the entire contract) would become un-enforceable.

Certainly, when I challenged Calor on this clause, they did (after a few "firm" letters) agree to reduce the price I was paying to bring the price rises in line with that shown on the contract, for *all* price rises that they had imposed over and above the contractual cap (IIRC, they did say I could walk away from the contract but I refused since I wanted to keep with the contract I had and instead insisted that they honour it).

Net result: I got a rather welcome refund of several hundred of those shiny pound thingies, and still have a contract that limits the price rise to just 2.5ppl in any six month period

Steve17

Hello HATELPG
I have the Calor renewal agreement in front of me now.
Section 6.2 "in the event of a price rise at any time exceeding the rate of 3.5p per litre in any period of six months you have the right (by giving us 42 days written notice in accordance with clause 10.2 within 30 days after we have told you of the price rise) to terminate this agreement. In the event of such termination you will pay the tank uplift charge as set out in clause 8.3.
Clause 8.3 (tank uplift charge) £230 + vat.
If you have signed this contract you have agreed to Calors terms and conditions and almost certainly legal and binding.
Regards.

HateLPG

Steve17

Thanks for clarifying that. The notice period of 42 days is the maximum permissable notice period, as stated in the CC ruling.

I'm pretty certain that the uplift charge, however is just a "scare" tactic and a throwback to pre CC ruling days (When was your contract dated? If it was signed prior to 13 April 2009, then clause 8.3 WOULD have been enforceable up to that date)

From the Competition Commission LPG Gas Order FAQ
(http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/lpgas_order_faq.pdf):

Most LPG tanks in the UK are owned by the supplier that fills them up because they are legally required to maintain the tank so it is safe to fill with LPG. For this reason, when most customers switch supplier the tank will stay where it is and the new supplier will take ownership and responsibility for it. If you want your old tank to be taken away you can ask your existing supplier to do this (for no charge).

Some suppliers prefer only to fill tanks that they have installed and so they may want to replace the tank before they begin to supply you. If that is the case then you will need to ask your existing supplier to remove its tank before the new supplier can install its own (if you own the tank you will have to negotiate with the new supplier to either remove it or purchase it from you at whatever price you both agree). If your new supplier wants to buy the tank from your existing supplier then your existing supplier must sell it to them according to the rules we have set out.

Steve17

That would apply when you are out of contract but if you terminated during the 2 year contract period the supplier may be able to charge the uplift as per the agreement.
My agreement was dated March 09 but my contract with Discount Gas Supplies dated August 09 has similar clause on uplift fee but £150.