Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

DAVID.T_3

I understand flogas have just increased by 8p ltr, anyone had such a letter

HateLPG

Flogas: your cuddly supplier?

This can't possibly be coincidence. The OFT Off mains enquiry is due to publish this month (I believe), from which it is fair to conclude that all investigations have now been completed, all decision made and that the report is now in a state of "final edit".

In the past week or so, it has started to become apparent that Flogas were (as many of us suspected all along), simply lying low and not rocking the boat.

DAVID.T wrote: »

I understand Flogas have just increased by 8p ltr, anyone had such a letter

added to which, we are now hearing suggestions that Flogas will no longer consider supplying to syndicates or buying groups.

It's perhaps too soon to suggest that Flogas were alone in taking this stance - this thread has been unusually quiet over the past few months, so perhaps all the "big four" have been holding off on price increases until the OFT report was a done deal.

That said, to use their cuddly marketing speak, "Go with Flo"?

Over my dead body!

sk240

DAVID.T wrote: »

I understand flogas have just increased by 8p ltr, anyone had such a letter

Yep i had a letter too, now at 59ppl + VAT!!!!
only overcharging by about 25% compared to their competitors
Unfortunatly im on a metered estate, and some of the idiots here signed another 2 year contract so im stuck!!!

Apparently we are one of their biggest residential customers (100 homes), but we still get a crap rate and poor curtomer service.
To make things worse, i often see a calor lorry fill the tank!!!!!!!

HateLPG

DAVID.T wrote: »

I understand Flogas have just increased by 8p ltr, anyone had such a letter

Calling all Flogas customers out there - I think this is an EXCELLENT opportunity to call Flogas' bluff on this one!

Firstly, some hard facts:

Clause 5.6 of any current Flogas contract states:

Where the cost of supplying the LPG increases due to an increase in the cost to us, we retain the right to pass on such increases to you but will notify you reasonably in advance of the same, giving you a reasoned justification for the increase.

Secondly, some relevant ANSI Propane wholesale pricing information. Pricing is rather volatile at the moment, but these are the prices over the past 6 months (converted from $/tonne to converted to ppl using the exchange rate in force at noon on the first of each month):

Mar 2011: 29.98
Apr 2011: 33.40
May 2011: 33.83
Jun 2011: 30.68
Jul 2011: 29.23
Aug 2011: 31.39
Sep 2011: 29.93
Oct 2011: 31.36

Whichever way you cut it, based on the previous Flogas increase being 6 months ago (March, if the increase is based on September figures; April if October figures have been used), the current wholesale price is marginally lower now than it was six months ago. I would defend any company's right to make a fair profit, but this increase, like so many we have seen from Flogas, is cynical and rank profiteering.

I have not received a Flogas price rise letter (I am not a customer of theirs, so I wouldn't expect one!), but I am assuming that the letter states that the price will apply to all future deliveries. If that means you require a delivery next week, then you will be expected to pay the new price (if anyone who has received one of these letters could kindly confirm the exact "notice" period for this rise, either on the board or by PM, I will amend this post as necessary). This is relevant in terms of the Flogas contract as it is currently worded, as there is no way that notification of an immediate price increase could be construed as "notification reasonably in advance".

So, the big points that need to be raised (and ones I would be putting extremely forcefully if I was unlucky enough to be one of their customers victims) are:

1. As the cost of LPG has, if anything fallen over the past 6 months (and has been showing a downward trend since May 2011), how come the cost of supplying LPG to me is increasing by [insert your percentage here, but it will be an unreasonably large number, probably somewhere between 12% and 18% at a guess], vastly in excess of any other conceivable inflationary pressures such as increased delivery costs?
2. Your contract states that you may increase the price only if you give me fair notice and reasoned justification. As you have provided neither fair notice nor reasoned justification, then under the terms of your contract, you have no right or entitlement to increase the contract price.

We would all be more than slightly interested to hear how they try to wriggle out of that!

bobhawke

sk240 wrote: »

Yep i had a letter too, now at 59ppl + VAT!!!!
only overcharging by about 25% compared to their competitors
Unfortunatly im on a metered estate, and some of the idiots here signed another 2 year contract so im stuck!!!

Apparently we are one of their biggest residential customers (100 homes), but we still get a crap rate and poor curtomer service.
To make things worse, i often see a calor lorry fill the tank!!!!!!!

That's 70.9p per litre. Propane at the pump is 75.9p per litre here, that is with fuel duty of about 31p a litre.

SD-253

DAVID.T wrote: »

I understand flogas have just increased by 8p ltr, anyone had such a letter

Energas sent a letter saying that a company with a 6 letter name were raising there price by 8p and they (Energas) would have to raise there prices but would sell at the pressent price for 3 weeks......top up now in otherwords

SD-253

annaps wrote: »

Thanks for a very useful thread everyone, I will definitely be avoiding Flogas!

We are tenants on a six-month lease and when we moved in I asked Calor (current suppliers) if we could not sign a two-year contract as we might have to leave before then if our landlady wanted the house back. They agreed and we've been on a rolling contract since then.

So if you're tenants, definitely worth asking if this is possible.

We are still switching away from Calor now though, as they've put prices up enormously in the time we've been with them

If you leave they don't hold you to the contract?you may just have been better on 2 year contract note may.

SD-253

mfmaybe wrote: »

Well the sad update in our saga is that the man from the alternate supplier came along - and said he can't supply us, as our tank is under a tree . It's an underground tank so I'm a little surprised it matters. I don't think he was trying to make a fast buck as he didn't talk about offering to move it. He just said the only other suppliers in our area were Calor and Shell, so it might be worth trying them to see if they will bend the rules more.

He then asked what I was being quoted and when I told him, said I was far and away the most expensive he'd heard of. He told me (as I've read on the thread here) that Flogas are causing big problems for his business by offering a current introductory rate of 42.5p. So he suggested shouting long and hard at Flogas, threatening complaints to LPGA, mentioning OFT/Competition Commission, and at least seeing if we can get a fill at a cheaper rate.

I'm not sure I even want to bother though :mad:. We are now looking into replacing our boiler with an oil filled one (we are about to replace the boiler anyway) as at least that would give us the flexibility to change suppliers. However theft makes me nervous as there was a lot of it about last winter.

This is all a bit unfortunate - as our gas ran out last night . Our entire fault for letting it run so low; but until I found this thread i thought the best we could save by shopping around would be a few pence a litre. So now we have no heating, hot water, or cooking gas; so may yet have to succumb to Flogas' astronomical rates for another fill :mad:

Could you cut the tree down and either chop the visible part of the trunk below ground or better still have a licensed tree surgeon into poison what is left of the trunk (need a license for that type of poison). Get a letter of the tree surgeon and show to the other gas company i.e. the tree will never grow again therefore the roots will not disturb the base?

SD-253

Flogas recently told me at Lincoln show that they have changed there attitude!!!! They have appointed a load of new managers to liase better with customers and are happy to deliver only 600 litres a year. The latter is of interest to me as I sometimes have loads of free wood so the amount of gas vary enormously. IE 1.5 tanks a year to half a tank a year. Although on sayng that 46.5 is what am paying with no problems from the supplier contract ends in Febuary think about nearer the time.

SD-253

mfmaybe wrote: »

Well the sad update in our saga is that the man from the alternate supplier came along - and said he can't supply us, as our tank is under a tree . It's an underground tank so I'm a little surprised it matters. I don't think he was trying to make a fast buck as he didn't talk about offering to move it. He just said the only other suppliers in our area were Calor and Shell, so it might be worth trying them to see if they will bend the rules more.

He then asked what I was being quoted and when I told him, said I was far and away the most expensive he'd heard of. He told me (as I've read on the thread here) that Flogas are causing big problems for his business by offering a current introductory rate of 42.5p. So he suggested shouting long and hard at Flogas, threatening complaints to LPGA, mentioning OFT/Competition Commission, and at least seeing if we can get a fill at a cheaper rate.

I'm not sure I even want to bother though :mad:. We are now looking into replacing our boiler with an oil filled one (we are about to replace the boiler anyway) as at least that would give us the flexibility to change suppliers. However theft makes me nervous as there was a lot of it about last winter.

This is all a bit unfortunate - as our gas ran out last night . Our entire fault for letting it run so low; but until I found this thread i thought the best we could save by shopping around would be a few pence a litre. So now we have no heating, hot water, or cooking gas; so may yet have to succumb to Flogas' astronomical rates for another fill :mad:

Don't renew your contract no need to. buy the smallest amount you can from Flogas (400 litres) and see what you can do about the tree?