Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG

I have recently found out, in respect of the OFT Off Mains Energy Study, that the OFT operated a so-called "Stakeholder Engagement Process". As part of that, there were a number of discussions hosted by the OFT and attended by interested parties representing the LPG supply industry. In addition to those discussions, UKLPG also held at least one face-to-face meeting with the OFT to present general information on the LPG industry from a supplier's perspective.

Stakeholder engagement process? Face-to-face meetings? And how, exactly, was the Consumer represented in all this cuddly market analysis and decision-making process?

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems increasingly unlikely that we will be welcoming an impartial report into the domestic LPG side of the Off Mains market when the OFT publishes later this month! Much as expected, really.

Bulk supplies of free Whitewash coming soon* - see http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/markets-work/current/off-grid/ for further details as they become available!

(*Probably. - I don't want the ASA after me for false advertising!)

JohnRE_2

Flipping FloGas. I have just been quoted 64.5ppl + VAT to fill my tank! I was told I don't use enough gas to warrant a lower price!

Though, to be fair, I could sign up to another 2 year lockin with the price fixed at 55ppl + VAT till March 2012, then they can rip me a new one and I would have 18 months to go before escape! Though, as a tenant I really don't want to go signing a 2 year contract when I may move on.

Arg.

Any decent suppliers around in West Wales?

Just spoke to FloGas again. Instead of a full tank (1200ltr) have now offered to deliver 900ltr @ 64.5ppl (approx £690), smallest delivery was 600ltr @ 64.5ppl + £50 delivery (approx £520) but only after I quizzed them about minimums!

DAVID.T_3

bobhawke wrote: »

That's 70.9p per litre. Propane at the pump is 75.9p per litre here, that is with fuel duty of about 31p a litre.

Remember only 5% vat on domestic not 20%

GrandadRob

JohnRE whatever you do,,, DO NOT RE-SIGN WITH FLOGAS.

From my bitter experience they are not to be trusted, their reputation on this forum is well deserved.
Just look through ALL the very many posts, and try to find just ONE good one for Flogas.

You know how much Flogas will charge you, so even if you find another supplier with the same quote, you will be a richer man.

HateLPG

JohnRE wrote: »

Any decent suppliers around in West Wales?

Hi JohnRE,

Whether or not any of these are exactly decent, I couldn't possibly comment, but (depending on exactly where you are in West Wales), these are your likely options:

Flogas, supplying out of a depot in Neath. Nothing more to be said there!

Also based in Neath are LP Gas Wales Direct Ltd (http://www.lpgaswalesdirect.co.uk/) and Calor (http://www.calor.co.uk/);

West Wales Gas (actually part of Calor, but I'm not sure how tight the ties are - they are supposed to be operating independently) have their depot in Pontweli, Llandysul (http://www.westwalesgas.co.uk);

Cambrian Gas (http://www.cam-gas.co.uk/) in are based in Aberystwyth.

If you're not extreme West, Callow fuels based in Hereford might be a long shot (http://www.callowgas.com/) if all else fails;

And on top of those, don't forget to investigate whether a farming cooperative might be able to supply you - see my post from March for more details (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42284086&postcount=853)

There is also Countrywide Farmers, but opinions on them are divided here (and they are now pretty closely tied in with Flogas anyway, which might not go down too well!)

Hope that helps - good luck, and let us know how you get on!

JohnRE_2

Cheers folks.

I have had my friends @ FloGas drop the absolute minimum into the tank (or at least ordered, just to keep us going) and will mno look inot a longer term solution.

I'll let you know how I get on (if indeed I do;))

LittleVermin, said Thanks. Seems like a good idea, a little protection where there is none.

LittleVermin

JohnRE wrote: »

Cheers folks.

I have had my friends @ FloGas drop the absolute minimum into the tank (or at least ordered, just to keep us going) and will mno look inot a longer term solution.

I'll let you know how I get on (if indeed I do;))

LittleVermin, said Thanks. Seems like a good idea, a little protection where there is none.

Yes, indeed, CONGRATULATIONS for getting Flogas - the (self-styled) friendliest LPG supplier - to do what you want! Well, OK, they've not done it yet .. but I'm sure there are lots of crossed fingers on this forum!

Thanks for adding your thanks to voisin's post about regulation. The Office for Fair Trading's off-grid energy report will be out next week (Tuesday 18th) so it would be good to get 100 'thanks' for voisin's post by then - 93 last time I looked. Here's the link again:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477

..

HateLPG

Well, this has been on the cards for years. Now we know:

"... Shell has signed a sale and purchase agreement with UGI Corporation for the sale of its Shell Gas (LPG) business in the United Kingdom. Shell hopes to complete the deal as soon as possible.

...following completion, UGI Corporation intend to trade under the name of Avanti Gas Ltd....

Avanti Gas Ltd will be part of the UGI group who are one of the largest suppliers of LPG globally with businesses in the US and Europe, and who also supply natural gas and electricity throughout the US."

And, from the UGI website (http://www.ugicorp.com/):

UGI Corporation (NYSE:UGI) is a distributor and marketer of energy products and services including propane, butane, natural gas and electricity. UGI has paid common dividends for 125 consecutive years and raised its dividend in each of the last 22 years.

(My bold)

Why do I get the feeling that the net impact of this on consumers is unlikely to be favourable?

BP next?

LittleVermin

HateLPG wrote: »

<snip>

BP next?

From UGI annual report for 2010, hosted at http://www.annualreports.com/HostedData/AnnualReports/PDFArchive/ugi2010.pdf

"August 11, 2010 UGI announces purchase of Danish LPG business from BP."

and also in September/October 2010 UGI announced the purchase of Shell's LPG businesses in Hungary and Poland.

UGI also wholly own Antargaz (France) and Flaga (Austria, etc).

Time back I was told BP was sharing a couple of offices in northern England with Flogas, so maybe it will go with Flo. BTW, the figures I've seen for mainland UK are: Shell and BP 9% each, Flogas 19% (from its website) and Calor 50%.

..

HateLPG

LittleVermin wrote: »

Time back I was told BP was sharing a couple of offices in northern England with Flogas, so maybe it will go with Flo. BTW, the figures I've seen for mainland UK are: Shell and BP 9% each, Flogas 19% (from its website) and Calor 50%.
..

Which leaves two likely scenarios, neither pretty:

Calor: 50%
Flogas (+BP): 28%*
Avanti Gas (UGI, ex Shell): 9%
Others: 13%*

or

Calor: 50%
Flogas: 19%*
Avanti Gas (ex Shell + BP): 18%
Others: 13%*

*Assuming Flogas/DCC don't continue with their normal corporate policy of growth by acquisition and start trying to swallow up the smaller players as DCC are very effectively doing in the UK Heating Oil market!

There is already too little competition for this market to be effective according to well-respected economic theory. I just hope that the OFT findings (report due next Tuesday) are unequivocal and that they offer some rulings with bite.