Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

John_Day wrote: »

I have previously reported that this pensioner's loyalty to Calor, over nearly 25 years, is being rewarded with a current price of 52.4p/pl AND Calor will only deign to deliver if they FILL my 2000 litre bulk tank. The pretty face of capitalism I suppose ?

John,

Is this "complete fill" a "new" thing, and is it a PERMANENT rule? Or is it a practical way to maximise their delivery potential should we get another "Big Freeze" like last year?

I for one, wouldn't fancy driving an LPG-laden tanker around on icy roads, especially if it was to do a partial fill for someone living at the far end of some un-gritted road in the back of beyond, knowing that I would have to do the same thing all over again in a few weeks time. And remember, if the weather does stay bad, there will be days the tankers simply won't be allowed out on the roads at all for safety reasons.

Just a thought, but just for once, this may not be sharp practice and there might be more common sense to this "complete fill" business than there at first appears..............

HateLPG wrote: »

Meagan,

See my PM for more info, but the short answer is:

There is no official body worth it's salt looking after the interests of LPG users!

But before you start worrying about "official bodies", have you even spoken to/contacted Calor about this yet? You may be miffed, but until they have actually categorically and unequivocally *refused* to honour their contract, it's a bit premature to be contacting official bodies anyway - as I explained in my PM, they won't be interested until you can demonstrate that you have taken reasonable steps to resolve this matter and can demonstrate that was NOT just a mistake or oversight on their part.

Thank you for your response,no I have not contacted them I wanted to see what my options were first.For some reason I am not able to receive personal messages(something about blogs)so I sorry I cannot read it or respond

meagan wrote: »

Thank you for your response,no I have not contacted them I wanted to see what my options were first.For some reason I am not able to receive personal messages(something about blogs)so I sorry I cannot read it or respond

OK - I'll post the body of the PM here on the board then - I think it's useful enough to warrant it, even if it does repeat things posted earlier in this thread:

-- PM, originally sent to Meagan --

You have my sympathy!

I experienced much the same thing, as you will have gathered from my posts on here. Nearly 2 years ago, I got hit with a price rise letter from Calor and I thought that the price being asked was simply not affordable. I then sat down with my contract and read it through, looking for an escape clause. After reading it three times, I realised the significance of the price cap, and worked out that I had been overcharged by several hundred pounds against the permitted maximum price increases, so I decided to challenge Calor.

To cut a long story short, it took some persistence and several "sorry, there's nothing we can do about the price" letters, but eventually they backed down and accepted my argument, and refunded me what I had been overcharged.

That didn't stop them trying to hit me with ANOTHER non-contractual price rise shortly after, so and I had to keep slapping them down for the rest of the contract.

Anyway, you asked for advice on what to do, and I would suggest the following:

1. Read and understand your contract inside out;
2. Communicate ONLY in writing, keep copies, and use a "signed for" mail delivery - in my experience Calor seem to have an unfortunate habit of simply losing/ignoring/not responding to inconvenient communications!;
3. Be firm, clear and unequivocal. Tell them EXACTLY what you want and WHY. Be polite initially, and accept that it "might have been a mistake". Give them (a reasonable) time to respond, and insist that they respond in writing. You have to take all steps to be reasonable and to be SEEN to have been reasonable, should you ever need to take things further. That doesn't mean being SOFT, but demanding a written response within three days of sending your letter would not be construed as reasonable. As a guide, I would suggest that you ask for written responses within 21 days of the date of your letter for your first two letters, then tighten that up to 14 days if you are still getting the run-around;
4. Keep your powder dry - there is no point in threatening to go to Trading Standards, the OFT, the Competition Commission or your MP in your first letter - none of these organisations will be remotely interested UNTIL you can show that you have made reasonable steps to sort this out and are STILL getting nowhere. As a rule of thumb, I would lay these threats down to them if and when you get to the stage of having to write a THIRD letter; Keep a diary and write to them again as soon as they miss a deadline or send you an unsatisfactory response;
5. Don't just write to the "Customer Services Department"; you need to address your communications directly to someone in a position of both authority and responsibility - I would suggest the Customer Operations Manager. Call your Customer Operations Centre to find out his/her name and address your letter and the envelope directly to him/her by name.
6. DON'T GIVE UP - check your contract very carefully, but I am 99.9% certain you will be quite correct in your assumptions and that Calor will be trying it on. Stick to your guns and you WILL win;
7. If they write saying that they can't drop the price but offer you a "goodwill payment" (in my case, they just credited it to my account without so much as a by-your-leave), write back IMMEDIATELY, stating in no uncertain terms that you do NOT accept this payment and that you require them to take it back. Tempting as it might be to accept an extra few quid, it is very important that you refuse it in no uncertain terms at this stage, since acceptance of the payment *could* be construed as an implicit acceptance of the higher price if you ever get into a legal battle; (I told them to take the money back when they made the payment, but when they finally DID amend my price, they told me I could keep it as a goodwill payment for having been messed around. Once they said that, I was then and ONLY then quite happy to keep the money as it was offered not as an alternative to a price rise, but in recognition of their "error");
8. Once you HAVE got it sorted out, it might be worth sending a letter to your MP outlining or Trading Standards, just for the record, your experiences.

I hope these pointers help - it's all pretty much common sense, really - just take a deep breath, step back and think before you act.

Don't get Mad :mad:, get even

Good luck - and let us all know how you get on.

I have had some small success in getting prices reduced by Calor for myself and some 15 other local residents. I set up an LPG buying group, approached Calor, Flogas and one other company (which I won't reveal as I don't want Calor or Flogas to know which) and finally managed in July to get Calor to give us a deal which lasts until April 1 2011. This gives us a ppl price of 37.9p. In return we had to sign up to a 2-year contract. There were a number of us who were "out of contract", but Calor agreed to put those customers who were already under contract (and paying 48.9ppl) on new contracts at the lower price. I appreciate that we will be locked in for a further 16 months or so after the reduced price ends, and that prices will be considerably higher post April 1, but most of us will have been able to get about a year's worth of gas (assuming we top up before April next year) at a much reduced rate. Also, all our contracts end on the same date, which means we have much more "clout" as a group than a bunch of individual households. As a group we consume in excess of 50,000 litres per year, ranging from households using only about 1,000 litres a year to some of us consuming more than 5,000 litres.

It was a very time consuming process and required my going door to door and writing lots of communication to local (mainly elderly) residents, but at least there was a reasonable result.

I too have written to the Energy Secretary and my local MP (twice) about the lack of consumer protection for LPG users, with no success. I intend to write again, however, following today's Energy Review announcement. Once again, LPG is being left out of this review, on the basis that this market place is "different" and therefore should not be covered by Ofgem. I feel we are a forgotten minority.

Thanks for that ,but I have managed to find your message and reply to it Now i'm not sure if it went.Not that computer minded