Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

voisin

Hi all.
It's good to know I'm not the only one lpged

Got a letter this morning from Shell’out’ putting a further 7p on a rise increase, only a few months ago, of 4p. I signed up at 35p for the first 6months in July 2009.
After reading the excellent info on here I looked at my agreement small print and believe me it was.
It states they have a 10p increase cap in any 6 months, if they go over that, the agreement can be ended by me. So I phone them and check it out, yes they have increased by 11p in the last few months hence I can end the agreement within 42 days and they have to keep the present price of 47p— with an attitude of ‘now pxxx off’.
I don’t use a great amount as I have alternative heating, maybe 2 to 3 fills a year (twice last year, I have a 1000ltr. tank) although I use it with a combi boiler for hot water, central heating, and cooking. The gauge is on just over 50 at the moment, within the 42 days I would probably need another fill of 800ltrs @47p.which could see me to end of February.
I know I’m waffling on but I’m trying to give an insight to my conundrum, I don’t mind changing supplier but I don’t know if this is a good time to do it.
I’m sure there are those out there with a wealth of knowledge and experience who can advise.
BTW how does their increased price of 54ppl compare to others out there??

meagan

Hi Voisin
I am in same position with calor, 10 wks into contract and they want to put up the price.see Hatel post 367 has some good advise to follow.
ann

HateLPG

voisin wrote: »

Hi all.
It's good to know I'm not the only one lpged

Got a letter this morning from Shell’out’ putting a further 7p on a rise increase, only a few months ago, of 4p. I signed up at 35p for the first 6months in July 2009.
After reading the excellent info on here I looked at my agreement small print and believe me it was.
It states they have a 10p increase cap in any 6 months, if they go over that, the agreement can be ended by me. So I phone them and check it out, yes they have increased by 11p in the last few months hence I can end the agreement within 42 days and they have to keep the present price of 47p— with an attitude of ‘now pxxx off’.
I don’t use a great amount as I have alternative heating, maybe 2 to 3 fills a year (twice last year, I have a 1000ltr. tank) although I use it with a combi boiler for hot water, central heating, and cooking. The gauge is on just over 50 at the moment, within the 42 days I would probably need another fill of 800ltrs @47p.which could see me to end of February.
I know I’m waffling on but I’m trying to give an insight to my conundrum, I don’t mind changing supplier but I don’t know if this is a good time to do it.
I’m sure there are those out there with a wealth of knowledge and experience who can advise.
BTW how does their increased price of 54ppl compare to others out there??

Voisin,

As far as I can see, Shell are currently offering deals in the mid to high 30ppl bracket (someone on here has even just signed at 32.5ppl!!). The current Shell contracts also peg the price rise to 3ppl per six months.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be inclined to tell them that you wish to cancel your curent contract (as per your agreement) but at the same time say that you would be willing to consider sticking with them if they can offer you 35ppl with the 3ppl/6months cap on a NEW 2 year contract. I doubt you'll get 35ppl straight off, but I reckon you stand reasonable chance of getting 36-38ppl - look back over the past few weeks worth of posts on here to get an idea of what Shell are offering for NEW business - after all, if you are going to cancel your contract with them anyway, that's exactly what you will be.

A few words of warning: there is usually a fixed period by which you must give notice of intention to terminate, so make sure you don't get caught out by spending too long shopping around for a better deal

mitchy74

HateLPG wrote: »

Voisin,

As far as I can see, Shell are currently offering deals in the mid to high 30ppl bracket (someone on here has even just signed at 32.5ppl!!). The current Shell contracts also peg the price rise to 3ppl per six months.

If I was in your shoes, I'd be inclined to tell them that you wish to cancel your curent contract (as per your agreement) but at the same time say that you would be willing to consider sticking with them if they can offer you 35ppl with the 3ppl/6months cap on a NEW 2 year contract. I doubt you'll get 35ppl straight off, but I reckon you stand reasonable chance of getting 36-38ppl - look back over the past few weeks worth of posts on here to get an idea of what Shell are offering for NEW business - after all, if you are going to cancel your contract with them anyway, that's exactly what you will be.

A few words of warning: there is usually a fixed period by which you must give notice of intention to terminate, so make sure you don't get caught out by spending too long shopping around for a better deal

Yeah that was me! although they still havent managed to get my contract signed over from Flo yet! :mad:

John_Day

HateLPG wrote: »

Anyway, I know from recent experience that certainly up until a couple of months ago, Calor were prepeared to do a "partial" fill. Whether that was as a dedicated delivery or a"tanker already in the area" delivery (I suspect the latter), I don't know, but at the time, they were quite happy to do a 50% top-up for me!

HateLPG - I am a little confused.

When I reported my umbrage at being denied partial deliveries, you stated :

I for one, wouldn't fancy driving an LPG-laden tanker around on icy roads, especially if it was to do a partial fill for someone living at the far end of some un-gritted road in the back of beyond, knowing that I would have to do the same thing all over again in a few weeks time. And remember, if the weather does stay bad, there will be days the tankers simply won't be allowed out on the roads at all for safety reasons. Just a thought, but just for once, this may not be sharp practice and there might be more common sense to this "complete fill" business than there at first appears..............

Now, you advise that you requested and received a partial fill yourself - why ? Do as I say, dont do as I do ? I only hope you do not live in the back-of-beyond, or I will be subsidising you !

In my own case, I am a 'deliver by request customer'. I am not a credulous optimist, but a pragmatic pessimist, and I do not want Calor filling my tank just before a price reduction, or deferring a fill until just after a price rise - perish the thought that Calor would do such a thing !

I always make clear that I do not expect a special delivery, rather, when Calor's tanker is in my area. In this regard, I always ensure that I hold sufficient to last at least 1 month, to meet the contingency of a delayed delivery. Yet, notwithstanding this, Calor will only FILL my tank.

Given your own experience, this merely endorses my earlier post about individual Calor Depot's writing their own rule book.

HateLPG

John_Day wrote: »

Now, you advise that you requested and received a partial fill yourself - why ? Do as I say, dont do as I do ? I only hope you do not live in the back-of-beyond, or I will be subsidising you !

John, I'm sorry if I caused confusion. I requested a partial fill because at the time, I was transferring to another supplier and having a new underground tank installed, so I needed sufficient gas to tide me over until the new tank was commissioned. As they knew it would be the last delivery they will ever make to me, and they knew I needed a top up, it would actually have made business sense for Calor to insist it was "complete fill or no fill". As they agreed to (and did) only a partial fill, I can only assume that at that point in time, it was their policy to respect a customer request for a partial fill.

The point I was trying to make was that up until 2-3 months ago, Calor were prepared to make a partial delivery to me, so I was merely floating the idea that their apparent reluctance to do so in your case is not necessarily a permanent shift in policy, but could be due to a temporary change to cope with demand during the expected bad weather. It could of course, as you point out, be down to the fact that individual depots have different operating policies. Or even, improbable as it might seem, that Calor just make it up as they go along

If you read my post in response to David.T's last, you will see that I suggest there are different approaches companies might take to ensure continuity of supply. Just my thoughts on the matter, but having spoken to Shell, their policy over the winter is to ensure continuity of supply by doing ad-hoc partial deliveries. And unless they know something we don't, that is to say there is a price drop in the offing (fat chance), they aren't doing it to get more money out of me by doing that!

John_Day

HateLPG
John, I'm sorry if I caused confusion. I requested a partial fill because at the time, I was transferring to another supplier and having a new underground tank installed, so I needed sufficient gas to tide me over until the new tank was commissioned. As they knew it would be the last delivery they will ever make to me, and they knew I needed a top up, it would actually have made business sense for Calor to insist it was "complete fill or no fill". As they agreed to (and did) only a partial fill, I can only assume that at that point in time, it was their policy to respect a customer request for a partial fill.

The point I was trying to make was that up until 2-3 months ago, Calor were prepared to make a partial delivery to me, so I was merely floating the idea that their apparent reluctance to do so in your case is not necessarily a permanent shift in policy, but could be due to a temporary change to cope with demand during the expected bad weather. It could of course, as you point out, be down to the fact that individual depots have different operating policies. Or even, improbable as it might seem, that Calor just make it up as they go along

If you read my post in response to David.T's last, you will see that I suggest there are different approaches companies might take to ensure continuity of supply. Just my thoughts on the matter, but having spoken to Shell, their policy over the winter is to ensure continuity of supply by doing ad-hoc partial deliveries. And unless they know something we don't, that is to say there is a price drop in the offing (fat chance), they aren't doing it to get more money out of me by doing that!

HateLPG - I appreciated your clarification - many thanks.

I would never request a partial fill without sound justification, although I trenchantly believe this should be my prerogative not Calor's. Naturally, common sense should prevail, as in all things, and I would consider say 750 litres a sensible benchmark. At current pricing this equates to c. £400. I know of no trade supplier who wouldn't bite my hand off to make regular deliveries at this level, on the understanding that they would be combined with other area deliveries.

Perhaps it's time to move on from this particular area. The feedback was appreciated nonetheless.

To open up on another issue, I have often wondered (given that Calor is unregulated) what independent mechanisms are in place to check the calibration of the tanker's metering system. Does anyone know whether this falls within the remit of Trading Standards, and is a regular spot check procedure ? I only say this, because I have a fractional gauge on my tank which is a 'ball park' indicator at best, hence, I always take the delivery note as read. It would be comforting to know that the tanker's metering calibration is independently verified - but is it ?

Former LPG worker - are you out there ? Is this my paranoia, or is it a reasonable question ? We always check the cash dispensed by the hole-in-the-wall don't we, or is that just me ?

Smack_2

mbday wrote: »

I have had some small success in getting prices reduced by Calor for myself and some 15 other local residents. I set up an LPG buying group, approached Calor, Flogas and one other company (which I won't reveal as I don't want Calor or Flogas to know which) and finally managed in July to get Calor to give us a deal which lasts until April 1 2011. This gives us a ppl price of 37.9p. In return we had to sign up to a 2-year contract. There were a number of us who were "out of contract", but Calor agreed to put those customers who were already under contract (and paying 48.9ppl) on new contracts at the lower price. I appreciate that we will be locked in for a further 16 months or so after the reduced price ends, and that prices will be considerably higher post April 1, but most of us will have been able to get about a year's worth of gas (assuming we top up before April next year) at a much reduced rate. Also, all our contracts end on the same date, which means we have much more "clout" as a group than a bunch of individual households. As a group we consume in excess of 50,000 litres per year, ranging from households using only about 1,000 litres a year to some of us consuming more than 5,000 litres.

It was a very time consuming process and required my going door to door and writing lots of communication to local (mainly elderly) residents, but at least there was a reasonable result.

I too have written to the Energy Secretary and my local MP (twice) about the lack of consumer protection for LPG users, with no success. I intend to write again, however, following today's Energy Review announcement. Once again, LPG is being left out of this review, on the basis that this market place is "different" and therefore should not be covered by Ofgem. I feel we are a forgotten minority.

Thanks for this enlightening contribution. These LPG suppliers seem to be ripping us off, especially when the weather is harsh, without any conscience or respect of loyalty. I only mange to get my prices reduced by throwing a strop every couple of years and threatening to leave. I am now at the end of my Flogas contract and after 24 years with the company I have about had enough of being conned into signing another. I would be very interested to learn more about your buying group.
YOBCO (Yelvertoft Oil Buying Cooperative), with now over 1000 members I believe, started within a small village and is a fantastic example of how this works with oil. I'd like to either start up a similar scheme with LPG or join an existing one. Where are you based and what is the name of your group?
Thanks again:T

DAVID.T_3

John_Day wrote: »

HateLPG - I appreciated your clarification - many thanks.

I would never request a partial fill without sound justification, although I trenchantly believe this should be my prerogative not Calor's. Naturally, common sense should prevail, as in all things, and I would consider say 750 litres a sensible benchmark. At current pricing this equates to c. £400. I know of no trade supplier who wouldn't bite my hand off to make regular deliveries at this level, on the understanding that they would be combined with other area deliveries.

Perhaps it's time to move on from this particular area. The feedback was appreciated nonetheless.

To open up on another issue, I have often wondered (given that Calor is unregulated) what independent mechanisms are in place to check the calibration of the tanker's metering system. Does anyone know whether this falls within the remit of Trading Standards, and is a regular spot check procedure ? I only say this, because I have a fractional gauge on my tank which is a 'ball park' indicator at best, hence, I always take the delivery note as read. It would be comforting to know that the tanker's metering calibration is independently verified - but is it ?

Former LPG worker - are you out there ? Is this my paranoia, or is it a reasonable question ? We always check the cash dispensed by the hole-in-the-wall don't we, or is that just me ?

hi,
Current LPG worker here, The lpg industry codes of practice say they need to be calibrated once per year, but i think most companies do them more often because due to their design if meters go out they usually go in favour of the customer not the other way, so the gas companies would not wish to give away product.

It does come under trading standards remit, but I can say in 20 years in the industry they have never checked our tankers! I have seen a couple of "one man operations" who dont use tickets that would concern me but one the whole I think you get the fuel you pay for.

meagan

I have posted before that I had received a letter saying price increase. My contract is at a fixed price for the 1st 6mths( this is written on the front page of my contract), so I rang Calor 1/12 to check my price.|At the mention of the letter I would only respond that I had a fixed price for 6 mths,the young lady said she would check the paperwork and get back to me,this she did saying my price was fixed at 37p for 6mths so now I can turn the heating back on.