Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG

Just as an observation and food for thought - I thought I'd have a look at the prices of Automotive LPG. I know it's a completely different animal, so direct comparison is misleading, but I looked at the figures out of curiosity, and I thought I'd share them.

According to http://www.petrolprices.com, this week the pump price for automotive LPG nationally ranges from 59.9ppl to 75.9ppl, with an average pump price of 66.0ppl

Now, the prices that people quote on here tend to be ex-VAT (that is what the suppliers always quote), and there is 17.5% VAT payable on Road Fuel (not the 5% payable on domestic energy), so that gives us an ex-VAT price for automotive LPG of 50.98ppl - 64.60ppl (average 56.17ppl);

[STRIKE]But before he sticks his VAT on, the Chancellor has already whacked 15.98p Fuel Duty on every litre of your best LPG (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1085465445&type=RESOURCES), so that gives us an Ex-VAT, Ex-Duty LPG pump price (i.e. delivered to point of sale, and including any profit margin (or loss)) for the retailer, of: 19.03ppl - 32.65ppl (average 24.22ppl)

Now I know it's not possible to make a direct comparison.
I know it's a very different market. I know that some stations such as the large Supermarkets sell fuel on the tiniest margin possible - often even as a loss leader to entice people in. I also know the delivery costs to the station will almost certainly be a bit less than the delivery costs to the domestic consumer.

But I also know that it is fundamentally the same product. And despite the obvious differences, I still think those figures tell a story........[/STRIKE]


Or maybe not!

As David T correctly points out later in this thread, the figures quoted for duty are £/kg and NOT £/litre.

Figures I have found for LPG density are about 0.5 to 0.51 kg/l, so, to re-calculate (using 0.5kg/l for simplicity), this should read:

But before he sticks his VAT on, the Chancellor has already whacked a massive 31.95p Fuel Duty on every litre of your best LPG (http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...type=RESOURCES), so that gives us an Ex-VAT, Ex-Duty LPG pump price (i.e. delivered to point of sale, and including any profit margin (or loss)) for the retailer, of: 35.01ppl - 48.63ppl (average 40.12ppl)

Which I guess is in line with what we are seeing in the domestic LPG market!

Sorry for any mis-information

GrandadRob

This shows that NOBODY should enter a new contract which does not contain a maximum rise clause, no matter how nice they sound. Whether it is the refinery or the supplier, it comes out of the same wage packet at the sharp end. You can't take your LPG bill to your boss and say from next month I demand a rise.................
So it's not excuses or reasons that I want to hear, it is just a fair deal. After all they couldn't get away with this if they were regulated like the other types of energy suppliers.

HateLPG

GrandadRob wrote: »

This shows that NOBODY should enter a new contract which does not contain a maximum rise clause...

And check that it's a sensible maximum rise clause!

Shell last year were offering 10ppl/6 months (they have a far more sensible 3ppl/6 months now); Calor earlier this year were offering 3.5ppl/3 months;

When considering new suppliers, I rejected both of those offers out of hand, based on that fact alone! Indeed, I stuck with my old supplier for an additional 12 months because my OLD contract was pegged at 2.5ppl/6 months and was still enforceable!

voisin

Ok a quicky.
Just out of interest, anyone interested in divulging their price to pay now, how long they have been in their contract and whereabouts in the country?
It would be interesting to see if the prices are similar country wide or a huge range difference as before the 'regulations'
Shropshire
Shell
18months into the contract started at 35ppl now 54ppl.

GrandadRob

Just OUT of contract, Herefordshire, Flogas, 64ppl.

The_Hornet

Out of contract, Herefordshire, Countrywide, 42.7ppl

SD-253

voisin wrote: »

Ok a quicky.
Just out of interest, anyone interested in divulging their price to pay now, how long they have been in their contract and whereabouts in the country?
It would be interesting to see if the prices are similar country wide or a huge range difference as before the 'regulations'
Shropshire
Shell
18months into the contract started at 35ppl now 54ppl.

Hi Lincolnshire Wolds (definitely deliver to Yorkshire) 47p a litre has not/never changed for at least 9 months. Contract at lest 9 months old probably longer. Company gives advance notice of POSSIBLE rise in price but as yet never followed through with a price rise. £60 a year tank rental. Energas http://www.energasenergysolutions.co.uk/ Email [EMAIL="keith.fisher@energasenergysolutions.co.uk"]keith.fisher@energasenergysolutions.co.uk[/EMAIL] not sure about the latter doesn't look right go to the site if not
This is the Internet site you should use to find a supplier who will deliver to you. Not sure but I think this is supplied by the competition authority
http://www.uklpg.org/supplier-search/search.php
The price quoted above may in fact be lower have emailed them to check as cannot find the delivery ticket.
NOTE JUST FOUND THIS IN FILE DOCUMENT IN MY COMPUTER FILES
Engas 37p 36p first month 16.4p rent CHECK RENT 07876658259

Note the name could just be a spelling mistake have emailed for actual price. Note the phone number its the salesman number. FILE IS DATED 08/12/09 SO CONTRACT IS AT LEAST 1 YEAR OLD

Barely used LPG as managed to get 2 years of free wood for my wood burner (turn heating on for about 2 hours a night) and I don't heat my water.

SD-253

LPG_info wrote: »

The price of Propane has gone through the roof this year.

Current marker (open market trade price) for LPG (today 3rd Dec) is >$1000/mT. Most marketing companies (Calor, Flo, Shell, BP etc.) have to buy this from wholesale suppliers at a premium to this - usually $50/mt
Base price of gas alone is then at 34ppl (1.6 xchange rate).
With overheads, fixed costs, transportation and profit then starting price to you is 45ppl. If you are getting anything less than this, then it is a loss leader by the supplier to get volume and manage price upwards over the next 2 years.
Any price between 45 and 55 is relative to market price.

Advice then is - if you are getting a good service and you are in this bracket then decide whether reliability of service or price is more important. If it is price then move.... but do not be surprised if it is back to the same level within a year....

Am paying 37p a litre Energas as I found this :-
Engas 37p 36p first month 16.4p rent CHECK RENT 07876658259
in a computer file dated 08/12/09 and they have not put up there price since need to check so have emailed them

SD-253

hatelpg wrote: »

and check that it's a sensible maximum rise clause!

Shell last year were offering 10ppl/6 months (they have a far more sensible 3ppl/6 months now); calor earlier this year were offering 3.5ppl/3 months;

when considering new suppliers, i rejected both of those offers out of hand, based on that fact alone! Indeed, i stuck with my old supplier for an additional 12 months because my old contract was pegged at 2.5ppl/6 months and was still enforceable!

mine has no price clause in the contract but this is actualy illegal as all contracts are now required by law to be fair. This is why the old variable rate mortgage were deemed illegal and everyone had to have a writen contract. Now that does not mean prices cannot rise by huge amounts ie even double but it has to be fair ie if they gave you a contract which was tied to the wholesale price then it could go up with it ie infinity (i know over the top statement but you get the gist)

SD-253

voisin wrote: »

Hi all.
It's good to know I'm not the only one lpged

Got a letter this morning from Shell’out’ putting a further 7p on a rise increase, only a few months ago, of 4p. I signed up at 35p for the first 6months in July 2009.
After reading the excellent info on here I looked at my agreement small print and believe me it was.
It states they have a 10p increase cap in any 6 months, if they go over that, the agreement can be ended by me. So I phone them and check it out, yes they have increased by 11p in the last few months hence I can end the agreement within 42 days and they have to keep the present price of 47p— with an attitude of ‘now pxxx off’.
I don’t use a great amount as I have alternative heating, maybe 2 to 3 fills a year (twice last year, I have a 1000ltr. tank) although I use it with a combi boiler for hot water, central heating, and cooking. The gauge is on just over 50 at the moment, within the 42 days I would probably need another fill of 800ltrs @47p.which could see me to end of February.
I know I’m waffling on but I’m trying to give an insight to my conundrum, I don’t mind changing supplier but I don’t know if this is a good time to do it.
I’m sure there are those out there with a wealth of knowledge and experience who can advise.
BTW how does their increased price of 54ppl compare to others out there??

I think I am paying 37p Energas no price rise in 1 year