Flight delay compensation, all other non-EU airlines

anshu83 · 3 January 2020 at 6:34PM

My wife had travelled with our kids to India in October 2019 through Qatar Airways. The flight was from London Gatwick via Doha to Nagpur (India). The Gatwick flight was delayed by more than 1 hour 42 minutes and they missed the connecting flight from Doha. Qatar Airways changed their tickets to the next day's flight without asking them even though there was 30 mins left for them to catch their flight. They finally arrived in Nagpur 24 hours late. I complained for compensation through Resolver but have got a response from them that the delay was due to [FONT=&quot]Air Traffic Services and weather conditions. I am sure there were no issues with weather on that day in Gatwick as I dropped them there more than 3 hours before the departure and was around the airport for another couple of hours. The main reason for delay was the late arrival of the incoming flight into Gatwick and delays in Boarding of passengers as my wife and kids were sat in their seats for more than 2 hours before the plane took off.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]I have written to CAA but it has been more than a month without any response. Is it now time to go down the legal route? or is there a way to get a quick response from CAA? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
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Caz3121 · 3 January 2020 at 7:05PM

anshu83 wrote: »

my wife and kids were sat in their seats for more than 2 hours before the plane took off.

that could well signify Air Traffic restrictions (possibly caused by weather) airlines like to leave when the flight is boarded but to do so they need to have clearance from air traffic.
The weather does not necessarily have to have been bad at Gatwick it could have been anywhere on the flight path route.
you can try the flight details in EUClaim and bottonline to see what they say

Sir_Caramel · 15 January 2020 at 3:08PM

Hello. I’m wondering if anyone can help with working out whether I can claim compensation or not. I’ve been looking through various websites and the FAQ here and Vauban's Guide, but I’m getting a little confused. If anyone can clarify things, I’d be extremely grateful.

My family of 4 (2 adults, 2 children) were returning to our home in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia after spending Christmas and the New Year in St. Louis, USA. We are all UK nationals and the rest of my family have dual nationality, also having US passports, but we are currently residing in KL.

My confusion stems from the fact that there is an EU part of our itinerary and our flights out of London were appreciably delayed in respect to our original itinerary.

Our original return itinerary was:

Friday 03 January 2020
American Airlines Flight AA1381
Depart - Lambert St. Louis 12.46
Arrive – Dallas/Forth Worth 14.49

Friday 03 January 2020
American Airlines Flight AA80
Depart - Dallas/Forth Worth 17.20
Arrive – London Heathrow 08.55 on 4/1/2020

Saturday 04 January 2020
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH3
Depart - London Heathrow 10.25
Arrive – Kuala Lumpur International 07.15 on 5/1/2020

What actually happened:

Friday 03 January 2020
American Airlines Flight AA1381
Depart - Lambert St. Louis 12.46
Arrive – Dallas/Forth Worth 14.49

Saturday 04 January 2020
American Airlines Flight AA80 (flight delayed to next day)
Depart - Dallas/Forth Worth 20.00
Arrive – London Heathrow 11am(ish) on 5/1/2020

Sunday 05 January 2020
Qatar Airlines Flight QR4 (No onward-booked flight so took this one)
Depart - London Heathrow 10.25
Arrive – Doha 01.00(ish) on 6th Jan

Monday 06 January 2020
Qatar Airlines Flight QR848
Depart -Doha 3.10
Arrive – Kuala Lumpur 3pm (ish) on Monday 6th January

Delay from original itinerary – 32 hours.

The more detailed story of what actually happened:

Friday 3rd Jan

Our first flight (STL to Dallas) went smoothly. AA staff asked for people to check in hand luggage if possible, as they were concerned about cabin space. They said the checked-in hand luggage would arrive at our final destination free of charge. I checked mine in.

However, after arriving in Dallas, there were delays to our connecting flight to London. The staff kept delaying the boarding time at the gate. We eventually found that there seemed to be a mechanical/technical issue with the plane. The AA staff finally announced that they would bring in another plane. A trolley was brought over filled with snacks and drinks for passengers. When the second plane docked at the gate, FBI and police moved in. It seemed that one of the passengers had died on the flight into Dallas (RIP). They wheeled her out covered up on a stretcher through the gate (which I thought was crazy – I’m glad my children didn’t see that). We waited till about 9pm and were finally told that the flight was now cancelled for that day. An issue with getting new crew at such a late hour, I heard. They would reschedule for the next day.

We were told to expect an email that would allow us book into a hotel for the night. A hundred or so people hadn’t received the email so we lined up to receive our hotel and food vouchers for the night. The line was incredibly slow. As we neared the desk, the line stopped. We were told the system was down and we would have to wait for it to come back up.

We had had an overnight stay in Dallas before, because of AA and our children finally got into bed at 2am after a protracted wait for AA to get their act together then a 20 mile bus drive out to some far-flung hotel.

Not wanting a repeat of this, we booked into a hotel in the airport itself after asking if we could get reimbursed later instead of waiting around for possibly hours for a system to come back online.

Saturday 4th Jan
Our new flight, also called AA80, was scheduled for roughly 3.50pm. We managed to get our $12 each meal vouchers that was supposed to cover us for dinner, breakfast and lunch. We also got our onward flight from London to Kuala Lumpur rebooked.
Of course the flight didn’t leave at the stated time. It took a US cop to come over and reveal that there was a technical issue with a door. The rest of the AA staff just played dumb. After the reveal, the pilot came over and clarified the situation as best he could.

A sandwich, snacks and drinks trolley was provided as we waited.

I went to the AA desk to rebook our on-going flight to Kuala Lumpur, as we would now not be able to make it. The man at the AA desk assured me that the new flights would already be booked and an agent would be holding our new boarding passes for us as soon as we stepped off the plane in London.

The passengers were finally told that if the issue couldn’t be fixed and we all weren’t able to board by 8/8.15 pm, we would lose the last launch slot and the next flight out would be in 3 days! After the plane was given the all clear we finally boarded around 8pm.

Sunday 5th Jan
We arrived in London around 11am. An agent was greeting transit passengers and giving them boarding passes for new on-going flights. Of course they didn’t have any boarding passes for us. If fact, along with a few other long-haul passengers, they didn’t even have us on the passenger list.

We went to the AA desk who informed us that the next Malaysia Airlines flight would be the next day. Our children were already dead on their feet, but we couldn’t really take another day as my wife had already missed an important work session she was supposed to have led. Luckily, the ladies at the desk found spaces for us on Qatar Airlines. It meant seats all over the plane and an extra stop at Doha, but it worked better than another night away. And the flight was leaving in just two hours. The kind ladies also gave us quite a few meal vouchers – they could see we were pretty frazzled!

Got to the Qatar gate, where a very courteous Qatar staff member managed to rearrange seats at the very back so our children could lie down and sleep on the London-Doha leg. Unfortunately, AA hadn’t categorised my checked-in hand luggage properly (the one I handed in when they made a call-out to check in cabin baggage back in St. louis), so I was forced to pay £65 for it as excess baggage.

Monday 6th Jan
Arrived in Doha and the staff there managed to give us new boarding passes where at least each child would be sitting near or next to a parent. Very kind of them to do so. The final flight left without a hitch and touched down in Kuala Lumpur at 3pm. One of our cases was cracked and dented, but we had no strength left to look for airport officials to make a claim there and then. We took photos of the luggage then got a Grab (like Uber) home and slept!

The total delay in reaching our final destination was around 32 hours. Do we have grounds to claim compensation?

Caz3121 · 15 January 2020 at 4:02PM

Sir_Caramel wrote: »

my confusion stems from the fact that there is an EU part of our itinerary and our flights out of London were appreciably delayed in respect to our original itinerary.

your flight leg departing the UK departed on time and was neither delayed or cancelled. The reason you were not able to travel on this flight was due to your AA flight delay which, as a non-EU airline on a flight departing outside the EU is not covered by EU261 (irrespective of the reason for delay)
You could see if your travel insurance has any coverage for delays and a complaint to AA may see you being offered some FF miles

Sir_Caramel · 16 January 2020 at 4:20AM

Thank you for your reply, Caz3121. You mentioned that "your flight leg departing the UK departed on time and was neither delayed or cancelled." I'd be grateful if you could expand further on that point.

My flight leg departing the UK was delayed, in respect to our original itinerary. If the flight you were supposed to take in the UK (and indeed subsequent rebooked flights) is no longer available because the incoming flight has been delayed, isn't that an issue? Or does the new flight they book you on in Heathrow, because of flight cancellations and delays coming into the UK, also have to have it's own delay? That sounds a little crazy.

I would have thought the idea of 'delay', 'cancellation' or 'rebooking' would be in respect to the original itinerary. Is this not the case?

Thanks again for your time.

Caz3121 · 16 January 2020 at 7:52AM

Sir_Caramel wrote: »

Thank you for your reply, Caz3121. You mentioned that "your flight leg departing the UK departed on time and was neither delayed or cancelled." I'd be grateful if you could expand further on that point.

I was referring to MH3 on the 4th January which you were originally booked on and took off on time on the day as per it's schedule. - you have no case to claim delay compensation from MH
Your replacement flight QR4 on 5th January also departed as per schedule - you have no case to claim delay compensation from QR

My flight leg departing the UK was delayed, in respect to our original itinerary. If the flight you were supposed to take in the UK (and indeed subsequent rebooked flights) is no longer available because the incoming flight has been delayed, isn't that an issue? Or does the new flight they book you on in Heathrow, because of flight cancellations and delays coming into the UK, also have to have it's own delay? That sounds a little crazy.

I would have thought the idea of 'delay', 'cancellation' or 'rebooking' would be in respect to the original itinerary. Is this not the case?

You are correct that delay is measured on original arrival time versus actual arrival time
Any claim is from the airline airline responsible for the delay. In your case this was American due to the AA80 being delayed to the following day causing other flights needing rebooked
Had your DFW-LHR flight been on a BA aircraft and the same thing happened...technical problem, delayed overnight, rebooked flights, arrived late at final destination....you would have been due €600 from BA as they are an EU carrier so must pay under EU261
As AA are not an EU carrier, EU261 compensation only applies on their flights that depart the EU.

Sir_Caramel · 18 January 2020 at 4:20AM

Ok, that's very clear. Thank you for all your time and help in clarifying the situation.

Prentiz · 8 February 2020 at 6:12PM

Hi all - in January I booked to fly from LHR-DPS with Garuda, via Skyscanner, and Travelpack.

I was originally booked on Garuda Flt 87, leaving LHR 22 Feb at 2110, returning Flt 88 29 Feb 0935, arriving 1045 on 1 Mar.
This has been changed a couple of time, with the latest change today, changing my return flight to Flt 88 1 Mar 2155, arriving 2 Mar at 1055.

I think I'm entitled to cancellation compensation for the change - can anyone clarify? Also, can I make Garuda rebook me on an alternative airline? Any advise much appreciated!

Caz3121 · 9 February 2020 at 7:31AM

Prentiz said:

changing my return flight to Flt 88 1 Mar 2155, arriving 2 Mar at 1055.

I think I'm entitled to cancellation compensation for the change - can anyone clarify? Also, can I make Garuda rebook me on an alternative airline? Any advise much appreciated!

your affected flight is on a non-EU airline departing from outside the EU. EU261 regulations do not apply
The initial reschedule was likely done my computer - have a look on their website and see what alternatives suit you better and contact them and ask for that. (there are a number of options on 29th)
even if had been EU airline - no compensation payment when more than 14 days notice given of the change.

wetjeans · 10 February 2020 at 4:33AM

I had an unpleasant experience with LATAM at Heathrow today. We had an evening flight so most of the storm was finished and our flight was the only one cancelled on the board.

The staff didnt give a reason, only a slip of paper with a phone number to call to look for an alternative flight. The person on the phone didn't seem to know what my rights were. No offer of food was made and the only available flight was 3 days away.

Anyway after about 3 hours from check in I finally blew my top at staff on the ground and demanded help. They found me a direct flight on a different airline that was going to arrive earlier than the cancelled flighr, however it did leave 2.5hrs after my supposed flight.
Am I entitled to any compensation? At least for them not offering food for 2.5hrs or the extended use of shortterm car park which cost nearly £35.
Also, they were less than transparent with me and made things difficult. This is annoying because I had to study this website with reasons to complain to airline. This type of thing has to stop.

Flight delay compensation, all other non-EU airlines

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