Surprised at attitudes

CB1979_2

dmg24 wrote: »

Your responses just show that you are still young, and still naive.

Sorry to be blunt, but you are!

as opposed to old & bitter?

i know which i'd rather be

nah only kidding, in fairness the site is great, it just makes me laugh sometimes how certain subjects (mainly cheating spouses, backstabbing wenches at schools & partners in general) seem to draw out the hatred that it seems many on here have experienced in their lives but then seem to jump on the band wagon patting the OP's back saying "yeah do it, death to the neanderthals" lol

without much thought from the dark "other side" point of view.

don't get me wrong it appears (on here anyway and most would say me included! lol) many men are complete idiots and for example it seems 9/10 if a spouse has cheated it's often the blokes doing it, doesn't mean ALL do it (just a large percentage!) yet trying to get that across is like trying to say no cakes allowed at the annual WI convention! ie be prepared to be E-Lynched lol

anyway you lesser lot, off the internet and get back to looking after the kids & getting dinner ready

hutless

hev wrote: »

I think men are struggling to find the appropriate models

I think it is important to find new roles/definitions/support for men without eroding the rights of women.

I think this is a key point! We need to find a new role for men, something not too disimilar to what women have just now,that allows both to develop and grow without harming the other. My worry is that women have changed and some, not all, are not 100% happy with some of the developments men want.

As for the DIY example, I agree with what you are saying. My only small point (and i'm not saying that this is true in your case but maybe in other cases) would be that in the same way that a women wants to feel wanted, you OH wants the same. We all want to be relied upon and needed, especially by the one we love - maybe this is one of the ways he feels wanted and taking that away from him makes him feel like you dont need him as much. I know it sounds silly - but i think we can agree women are not always perfectly rational, so why should men always be?

asea

Don't you think that repeatedly referring to women as wenches seems to show hatred on your part though?

CB1979_2

asea wrote: »

Don't you think that repeatedly referring to women as wenches seems to show hatred on your part though?

not at all, it's in fact a term of endearment

http://www.wench.org/about/what.php

however i do disagree with:

5. We are not a group of Femi-Nazis. We are not against men in any way

hev_2

hutless wrote: »

I think this is a key point! We need to find a new role for men, something not too disimilar to what women have just now,that allows both to develop and grow without harming the other. My worry is that women have changed and some, not all, are not 100% happy with some of the developments men want.

As for the DIY example, I agree with what you are saying. My only small point (and i'm not saying that this is true in your case but maybe in other cases) would be that in the same way that a women wants to feel wanted, you OH wants the same. We all want to be relied upon and needed, especially by the one we love - maybe this is one of the ways he feels wanted and taking that away from him makes him feel like you dont need him as much. I know it sounds silly - but i think we can agree women are not always perfectly rational, so why should men always be?

I have to say that I think my OH is wonderful and has been an absolute lifeline at so many difficult times. But the DIY thing drives me daft - I don't mind him wanting to be needed. I go out of my way to make him feel wanted. I do mind him saying that diy is a man's job and if I do any it will erode his sense of being 'manly' and then not doing the dratted diy (putting up a picture) after all.

But that's one of those husband and wife things - he is a lovely bloke and he puts up with me so I just work round him (but I'm still having a go at the diy )

ETA I think you are right that there is a real problem with men feeling that they are not needed, but they are! It is just so difficult when because of changes in society women no longer need men solely as breadwinners and the stigma of being a spinster (or worse - unmarried mother!) is no longer there. Men are still needed but defining the role in an active 'doing' sense is the problem.

hutless

hev wrote: »

Men are still needed but defining the role in an active 'doing' sense is the problem.

So we agree on the problem - lets re-define the role right now. It all has to start somewhere - let it start here on a hidden away thread on MSE! In 5 years when it has taken off - we'll be visionaries!

glossgal

I think our roles are changing but not really for the better. I think feminism has gone full circle and bit itself on the a**. Look at the schoolies on the bus, the teens spilling out of clubs/pubs...the girls are the ones causing trouble. Don't get me started on bad driving-if you're cut up or tailgated it's more and more gonna be a woman behind the wheel in my experience. I think younger women and women in general are apeing men-but the horrible traits of men not the good bits!

As for men being edged out of the family, this is a bitter pill that government and society in general is gonna need to swallow because I think this is disasterous long term. Im too am tired of reading men hating posts on here along the lines of 'I got rid of the loser, my kids don't need him etc' as if there is no alternative to being a single family or one with an unproductive father. Here's a novel idea, how about mothers get selective about the losers they breed with and stop whining when -shock horror!- the loser boyfriend is also a loser dad?

CB1979_2

end of discussion glossgal wins

hutless

glossgal wrote: »

Don't get me started on bad driving-if you're cut up or tailgated it's more and more gonna be a woman behind the wheel in my experience.

I think the traits of a bad driver is more complex than saying they are either male or female and this generalisation does not help. Saying things like this are equivalent to the 'men hating' threads that you refer to. In the same way that most people can see beyond race, we need to try and see beyond gender when it comes to certain things.

hev_2

hutless wrote: »

So we agree on the problem - lets re-define the role right now. It all has to start somewhere - let it start here on a hidden away thread on MSE! In 5 years when it has taken off - we'll be visionaries!

I wish I knew - and it is a tough one. Families need fathers - research has shown that lacking a father adds to chances of schizophrenia, poverty, poor schooling, poor career...

Nowadays there is enormous pressure on women to do all the traditional 'male' things, like decorate, fix the car, etc. Some women have to - and you can now buy pink tool kits to diy. This puts pressure on a man, and if they are inarticulate or had a bad upbringing this can lead to domestic violence. Other men just opt out - don't do anything which can leave a woman feeling resentful. Male role models who are caring family men are pretty sparse - does anyone seriously want to model themselves on Peter Andre? How about Ashley Cole? (mind you - I don't exactly want to model myself on Katie Price).

Personally I blame the soaps. I don't actually watch them much, but how many happily married couples are there? Not to mention Jeremy Kyle - how many kids are going to grow up thinking that is normal?

One thing, I do think that those in difficult relationships should be supported in getting out or getting help whether male or female. That at least is one good thing that has come out of the last few years, especially now it is recognised that men can be the victims of domestic violence as well.