Budget Planner Discussion Area

limeygent

Hi first timer from another FT!

My wife and I go strictly cash every week for things like groceries, petrol/gas (I live in the USA), eating out and other miscellaneous bits n bobs.

We find it self-regulates rather well and there is immediate feedback if we're overspending. We tried several weekly amounts over the years and settled on a number that works about 90% of the time. What helps is we made up a spreadsheet of all the things we normally buy at the grocery store. Once a week, we print it off and check off any items we have run out of or about to. We take that list to the store and that's all we buy. In the beginning, we were tempted to stray, but the rule is "if it's not on the list, it doesn't go in the cart"

That's the weekly, variable type of expenses.

For items like clothing, xmas pressies, insurance and other types of irregular expenses, we went back over the years and figure out what we spend on each category. Divide that by 12. Once a month, automatically transfer that number into a separate bank account. When the bill arrives, it's paid out of that account. It seems to work pretty well - for xmas, we determine ahead of time how much we spend per person.

We have several accounts set up to manage our money and had worked very well for us since implementing it 7 years ago.

limeygent

Konny wrote: »

Hi all i have been with my husband for 10 years now and I feel I have gone every which way to teach him about managing money and how to budget but to no avail. I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions because money in his hands is like water through a sieve. I will make up budgets to help us and to ensure that we can save and put away for the future... come the statements and here it is £10 withdrawn on such and such a date and the next week the same so on so forth...what for...its gotten to the point of where I want to take his bank card away from him and give him an allowance like a child who cannot be responsible, it literally makes me want to pull my hair out and scream blue murder. I know we all earn money and we want to enjoy it as well but it doesn't help if we short at the end of the day and he looks to me as if to say what now dear??? please fix. I have gone grey before my time... thank if anyone can help.

I've been coaching individuals for a few years now, and this is a common question, especially if one of them is very analytical, and the other hates to dwell on the details (as was the case with my wife and I)

1. Discuss the family financial goals (pay off debt, buy a house in xyz town, be able to pay college for child, take a family holiday etc etc. This is usually something that both people can openly talk and agree on, and can be exciting.

2. So now you have some common goals.

3. (The analytical person has already done this ahead of time, so already knows the answer) - as a couple, sit down and - at a high level - what income and expenses do we have. The easy way to do that is to pull out your bank statements - is the balance going up or down or flat. Do you have any credit card balances. Again, are they going up or down or flat?

Don't try to break it down to food / electric / clothes / eating out etc etc - the non-analytical person will glaze over and lose focus.

4. Ask the other person if they think they are on course to be able to get to those goals by a desired time. If money is not going to be accumulated fast enough to meet that goal, ask for help to figure out how to make it happen.

5. (you already have some ideas to fix it!) Both of you then put your heads together to come up with a plan.

6. Don't make it so strict that it feels like they're being punished. Suggest a "play" amount each week. Example, $20 each person can use for whatever they want with no questions from the other person. Save it, gamble it, buy a lotto ticket...

7. Once a month, revisit the plan and see how it's working and how each person is holding up to the agreements. If the other person dipped into the ATM, ask them (without nagging) if this was part of the joint agreement. You might want to ask for help to figure out what you would need to cut out of this months budget to replace that errant ATM withdrawal.

Sometimes that doesn't work, so just go back to the goals you agreed on. maybe a picture on the fridge is a reminder of how important it is. Is the short-term pleasure of the quick ATM cash more important of retiring in 10 years or buying a replacement car. That's the trade off they're making.

My wife was (and still is) non-analytical, but handles and manages our weekly money very well. We made this agreement years ago, and now it's second nature to us.

HTH.

P.A._Ranoia

I read Martin's article. Something similar has always been my method of financial management and it has served me very well over the years. Recently I have experienced a few problems with the 'Piggy Bank' system. These days it is hard to find accounts that pay enough interest to keep pace with inflation unless you are prepared to switch accounts regularly. Also many institutions are not keen to set up accounts which require two signatures to withdraw significant amounts of money - this can be a problem if one half of a partnership has, shall we say, different priorities. Martin's Piggy Bank system demands you set up several bank / savings accounts each dedicated to a category of expenditure.

Does Martin or any Forumite know of a practical way to set aside money and track expenditure on important items within one account? [I am far too idle to carry out regular accounting procedures such as keeping records of expenditure up to date.]

innovate

P.A._Ranoia wrote: »

I am far too idle to carry out regular accounting procedures such as keeping records of expenditure up to date]

Therein lies your answer. Assume responsibility for your own affairs. For example, a simple spreadsheet can do virtual piggy banks. There are also a number of free budgeting apps which could be an option. Bottom line is, though, you got to look after yourself because nobody else will.

P.A._Ranoia

innovate; Assume responsibility for your own affairs. For example, a simple spreadsheet can do virtual piggy banks.

I think you are describing human nature as you feel it ought to be rather than as it is. I could set up virtual spreadsheets but in the real world they would not be updated, even though I regard myself as towards the OCD end of the spectrum. Most with demanding jobs and family commitments would experience the same difficulty.

The 'Piggy Bank' system Martin describes is a recognition of this. It is important to accept one's own personality and plan accordingly. In common with most I can summon up the will power to set up a governance system because I realise the consequences of not doing so. But If there is a need to make regular inputs to maintain it [ie update virtual spreadsheets] it would fall by the wayside. Martin's 'Piggy Bank' system has worked very well for me for the best part of 40 years. But there are one or two problems as described in my original post re a practical way to set aside money and track expenditure on important items within one account . Hence request for suggestions on improvement.

JustSean

Apologies if this isn't the right thread to ask or has already been asked but I have read a few posts and not noticed it yet.

Is there a general rule of thumb of how much % the average person's wage should go towards things.

For example: 30% on mortgage, 25% bills, 20%food, etc etc (they're random numbers).

I'm only asking as me and my girlfriend are looking at moving out together and I want to have an idea of the amount of money we can put towards things.

Kind Regards,

Sean.

166million

JustSean wrote: »

Apologies if this isn't the right thread to ask or has already been asked but I have read a few posts and not noticed it yet.

Is there a general rule of thumb of how much % the average person's wage should go towards things.

For example: 30% on mortgage, 25% bills, 20%food, etc etc (they're random numbers).

I'm only asking as me and my girlfriend are looking at moving out together and I want to have an idea of the amount of money we can put towards things.

Kind Regards,

Sean.

Hi there, It depends on a lot of factors, especially where in the country you live, what type of housing, do you include transport costs, how much you earn, how much you eat!

I would say 40-55% rent and bills in total..is an average? But there's no 'should' - you have to decide your priorities based on your income and goals.

It's really impossible to say unless you do a budget. Look at the prices of houses you would like, do a mortgage calculator online for a estimate of monthly repayments.

Hope this is helpful

Some pertinent threads: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5427566

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5185622

pjala

My budgeting revelation happened in 2013,when i started using a program called YNAB meaning "you need a budget".
It becomes obsessive after a while, but then eases, once you get used to doing it. I replied to your question, because it uses a cloud app now - it used to be a program you download and run on your own computer. The cloud app, is run from either phone or pc - so suits you - but it costs. Cost I think, is about £40 a year. I think it is worth it.
It's main idea, which is different to any other way I have tried to budget, is that you put in how much you earn, then put in how much to spend on all your different outgoings. You can see months ahead, and months behind. It is a bit like a spreadsheet, but much much better.
They also, have loads of free videos to watch, plus live talk ins - where you ask daft questions and get answers. I used all of these and got to learn a lot about myself as well as budgeting.
You start by putting in how much you have in your bank account now - so no looking back at the past to feel guilty about. Then work out where it goes - they are N.Americans, so "every dollar has a job".
Check my history, I am not selling their stuff, but I have used other programs to budget and none have worked. Budgeting is like dieting, ok for a bit, then you lapse. In over 3 years I have never lapsed.
One issue I had originally with them was encryption - I ended up in an argument with one of their developers - so it is never all sweetness and light. I think they let students have it for free, and give you a couple of months grace - but not sure.
All the best,
Paul.

rachlikeswinter

JustSean wrote: »

Apologies if this isn't the right thread to ask or has already been asked but I have read a few posts and not noticed it yet.

Is there a general rule of thumb of how much % the average person's wage should go towards things.

For example: 30% on mortgage, 25% bills, 20%food, etc etc (they're random numbers).

I'm only asking as me and my girlfriend are looking at moving out together and I want to have an idea of the amount of money we can put towards things.

Kind Regards,

Sean.

I read somewhere recently about the 50/30/20 rule:
50% Housing, Bills, Food (i.e the 'important' shelter, warmth, nourishment that keeps you alive)
30% 'Fun' - eating out/luxury foods, music, books, socialising, anything that doesn't keep you alive but keeps you having a life
20% Savings & Pensions

You can probably break this down a lot more if you wanted to, and like the post above says, rent/mortgage will depend on your area but start with what you earn, break it into the above chunks, and work out realistically what you can spend where. The golden rule is don't borrow from one section to pay the other. i.e don't borrow from your Savings % if you want to go shopping, when you've spent your Fun %.

katie4

166million wrote: »

Hi there, It depends on a lot of factors, especially where in the country you live, what type of housing, do you include transport costs, how much you earn, how much you eat!

I would say 40-55% rent and bills in total..is an average? But there's no 'should' - you have to decide your priorities based on your income and goals.

It's really impossible to say unless you do a budget. Look at the prices of houses you would like, do a mortgage calculator online for a estimate of monthly repayments.

Hope this is helpful

Some pertinent threads: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5427566

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5185622

Hi link to your diary in your signature is not working