pub bankruptcy

forestpottsy

Hi,

has anyone on here had experience of going bankrupt whilst running a pub?

We are 99% sure we are going to go down this route and would appreciate some guidance as we are obviously going to lose our home as well, i.e the accommodation above the pub.

Thanks

maxmycardagain

youd have to give a few more details for any advice matey, and first youd better ring the business side of CCCS

are you a tenant?
tied to a brewery?
are you sole traders or ltd comp?

good luck, and can i pop round for a pint?

forestpottsy

We are on a tenancy with Punch Taverns. We are tied to them for our beer.

We have spoken to Business Debtline who were about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. They are sending us a Self Help pack but that's it.

We have also spoken to the Licensed Trade Charity who were much more helpful, giving us details of grants etc we may be able to claim if we need help with accommodation after going BR.

We have been here for about 18 months.

We knew it was going to be an uphill struggle as the pub had been run down so much, but also knew we could build it back up. We have done that, increasing by about 35%. The problem has been Punch who misled us on a number of things before we took the tenancy on, promising the earth and delivering zilch, not even absolutely essential repairs they are legally bound to do.

They have added all sorts of extras on to the rent (and we've checked, they are allowed), and it is now completely out of proportion to the takings.

We have had 5 area managers in the space of just over a year, the previous two we have not even been able to speak to. The longest one was from August last year to beginning MArch this year and just was not interested in helping us. We have been asking for a rent review since last October when we began to realise that thimngs were really starting to bite and he just kept fobbing us off. At one point he would not answer emails or the phone or return messages for nearly 3 months.

Meantime we had sold our house (august) to pump more money in and hubby had to go back to work full time in December just to keep the cash coming in to tick over.

2 more area managers later ( 1 interim and one just started so we'll see what he's like), we are no nearer a rent review and simply have no strength to carry on. We have no more money to put in and are simply treading water.

Punch have said they are only interested in their rent and will send the bailiffs in to seize stock if we miss it. Once we have paid the rent each week, currently at just over £800, and bought stock in, there is simply nothing left to pay anything else so we have creditors coming out of our ears.

Hubbys wages are all going into the business, and we are drawing nothing out. Even our child benefit has been swallowed each month by bills.

Br is the only option and we just want a friendly and hopefully knowledgeable ear to bend.

rog2

forestpottsy wrote: »

Br is the only option and we just want a friendly and hopefully knowledgeable ear to bend.

And you will, most certainly, find a few friendly, and sympathetic ears to bend, here, fp.
It is a great pity that Mike St. Helens doesn't post any more. Not only was he 'responsible' for the creation of this forum, but he, too, was forced into bankruptcy as a result of 'running a pub' or should I say 'letting the pub run him'.
The Licensed Trade certainly seems to be poorly 'managed' by target-driven companies. Their seems to be little, even no, incentive for 'tenants' to do well, as the 'Brewery/Management Company' appear to increase rent, and sales targets, disproportionately to the 'income' of the pub.
Whilst not specifically allied to the brewing trade, other than as customers, many of us have declared bankruptcy, or been declared bankrupt, as a result of businesses failing through no fault of our own.
So ask away and stick around - I'm sure there's lots of common ground.
And Phil could always do with a hand at 'The Inn'. :rolleyes:

fiveyearplan

I too have had it with landlords (not of the pub variety by landlords all the same). That was the main factor in my BR today. Greedy so and so who just wanted to redevelop my unit, closing my business and forcing me into bankruptcy. Sorry to hear your troubles but Rog2 is right, you'll get plenty of sympathetic ears here.

JCS1

Have sent you a personal email, but (I used to work as an examiner in an OR Office) and your story is similar to one I have heard many times before with this particular brewery. High rent, high beer, high overheads, combined with bad summer weather, cheaper supermarket beer, and then no smoking ban. We seemed to have a lot of pubs Jan/Feb time, suspect people hoped for a good Christmas/New Year to try and turn things around first.

skylight

Is there any reason MikeStHelens doesn't post any more? I went for some time not even lurking on MSE and kind of lost touch, but he was a great source of help to me in those days when I was/wasn't/was!

Try a PM anyway? He may still pick up email connected with MSE? (He was my first thought on the Pub thing!)

forestpottsy

We did try to Pm Mikesthelens off here but he doesnt accept them, the site just blocks them.

We were however directed to another site ( thanks philnicandamy) and have established contact with MSH.

We have emailed some details over and are waiting to hear back, hopefully with some practical advice.

In the meantime, if anyone else has any experience or suggestions then please do let us know, and thanks to everyone for all the replies and PMs so far.

Will keep you all updated.

susieh_2

HELLO,

Just wanted to say its not only Punch who treat tennants in this way, we were with Enterprise Inns, and they were just the same re rent & price of beer.

We had to B/R in June 2004 and when we had our O/R interview he was very sympathic and said we were the 3rd person/couple who he'd spoken to that week and it was only Tuesday.

I am so sorry for your situation and can't really offer any pratical advise as we in the end just gave up fighting, but I/we really do understand how you must be feeling.

These companies are all nicey, nicey when everythings going ok, but as soon as things start to wobble they don't want to know. What a surprise!!!

Best of luck, I'll be following your story, take care.

Susieh

Persolv0

Why oh why oh why do these people not understand that offering proper support and playing fair will result in better more stable long term profits for their company and loyalty from their tennent landlords.

Sorry not much help but good luck and best wishes

forestpottsy

hi to all who have shown us support thus far, either with pms or replies.

We have now deicided that we are going to look after ourselves (our health and relationship has suffered over th last 6 months) and our two children ( nearly 8 and nearly 3) first. We have fronted it out well and no-one yet realises how bad we are, except for two VERY trusted friends and customers.

They have today helped us move as much as poss today in a horse box ( we are lucky, we have big double gates it could be parked behind away from prying eyes and the general public and they are here all the time anyway as they have horses on adjacent land) and we are loadiing a 2nd lot including most of the big furniture tomorrow.

We now have a 20ft container that is paid for and stuff is going into.

We have decided that the brewery can go sing. WE figure we have at least this week to get stuff out before poeple start to a) notice and b) question so we will get as much as out.

Will post more to show the urgency in a couple of days, and hope you all understand, but we are trying to protect our kids.

Have accepted going BR, not a problem, is our only way out, but are trying to hide anything out of the unusual to 2 VERY inquisitive kids....not so easy. Especially in our game.

Even if we end up without a house, we will have done the right thing as hubby has a job and we have the choice of a tent or caravan at least!!!!

Good luck to everyone going through this or contemplating it. We are going to lose our business AND home, but we are going to be doing the right thing, just not sure of timescale yet.

It is hard, and very emotional, but we know that and despite being able to cry at the drop of a hat at the moment, we know we are doing the right thing. If we don't, we are going to suffer as a couple, more than already, and the kids are ecrtainly going to suffer. they aren't daft and we've been able to just pass it off as Mummy and Daddy working too hard at the moment, but that won't last forever.

It wont just be a fresh start for us, but also hopefully for the kids. They might just get Mummy and Daddy back. Instead of those horrible stressed out monsters.