TV Licence article Discussion

JimmyTheWig

Zapito wrote: »

The day before you get there or when you arrive there phone TV licensing or go online to get a licence, and pay by Direct Debit. Watch TV happily in the knowledge you have a valid licence. On the day you leave or when you get back home, ring TVL again or go online and cancel the licence, and cancel the Direct Debit via your bank.

Note that the licence is always calculated on a calendar month basis, so say if all your holiday was in August then you'd only need a licence for August, but if it was say the last week in August and the first week in September then you'd need it for both August and September.

Not dissimilar to my plan.
Bizarre that they say that you can cancel the direct debit after one month, but can only reclaim unused _quarters_.

[Obviously the rule about unused quarters may have changed to months in the last year.]

The other thing to note is that by paying by monthly DD for a new licence you pay for two months each month for the first 6 months. So if they were only there in August then they'd pay for two months and presumably would be unable to reclaim anything as they didn't have any unused quarters. if they were there for two months then they'd pay for 4 months - I wonder if they could claim back 1 of those months as an unused quarter? All sounds a little odd.

Zapito

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Not dissimilar to my plan.

Better than paying all that money up-front though.

Bizarre that they say that you can cancel the direct debit after one month, but can only reclaim unused _quarters_.

[Obviously the rule about unused quarters may have changed to months in the last year.]

Oh, they definitely need to upgrade their system. I sometimes suspect they still write everything down in ledgers, with a quill pen

The other thing to note is that by paying by monthly DD for a new licence you pay for two months each month for the first 6 months. So if they were only there in August then they'd pay for two months and presumably would be unable to reclaim anything as they didn't have any unused quarters. if they were there for two months then they'd pay for 4 months - I wonder if they could claim back 1 of those months as an unused quarter? All sounds a little odd.

OK - after reading this I rang them back on 0300 790 6130. BTW, the menu responses needed to get through to a real person are: 5 - 5 - 3 - 2. You can enter each digit just as each message starts telling you the list of options for that level. Also, when it asks for your existing licence say "None" or something and then for postcode just say a town or something. The machine will say "I don't understand" a couple of times before putting you through.

The nice lady who answered (I forgot to note down her name) agreed that the first Direct Debits are indeed for 2 months each (naughty Dominic didn't mention that) and as they only give refunds in 3-month blocks, then the Direct Debit method is apparently the cheapest way to do it, paying for just 2 months. I specifically asked if that is OK with them and she agreed it was fine, that they have no problem with it.

So 2 months is better than 3.

But might be worth a try to simply cancel the Direct Debit immediately after getting the licence electronically, but before they've actually collected any money, then later but soon posting them a cheque for the amount for one month ( £12.13), saying you have decided against paying by Direct Debit*. Specify it's for the holiday home address (no need to mention your own address).

*Or you could just say something like "Here's the one month licence fee due you for (address of holiday home) in lieu of the Direct Debit error."

Zapito

Cornucopia wrote: »

- Content recorded off-air at a Licensed address and physically brought to the unlicensed premises.

I think they could still get you for that, since as I understand it recording off-air remains technically illegal* although they say they won't normally prosecute if it's for own use. But I suspect they could prosecute if they wanted to.

*I understand it is legal to make recordings off-air for the sole purpose of time shifting (ie viewing at a later time) - which would presumably exclude space-shifting (uie watching at a different location).

Zapito

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Bizarre that they say that you can cancel the direct debit after one month, but can only reclaim unused _quarters_. ...

The other thing to note is that by paying by monthly DD for a new licence you pay for two months each month for the first 6 months. So if they were only there in August then they'd pay for two months and presumably would be unable to reclaim anything as they didn't have any unused quarters. if they were there for two months then they'd pay for 4 months - I wonder if they could claim back 1 of those months as an unused quarter? All sounds a little odd.

But if you've actually paid for four months and have only used one month shouldn't you be able to claim back three of them?

But I don't think TVL'd give in easily. There would probably have to be a court case (you suing them for the refund) and you'd probably need to have some proof of the three vacant months, and that you had told them. After court costs probably wouldn't be worth it.

I think my cheque method would be more likely to succeed. Chasing you would be max. hassle for them, but min. hassle for you. If the worst came to the worst and they threatened you with court, you could still give them a cheque for £12.12 for the second month.

Cornucopia

Zapito wrote: »

I think they could still get you for that, since as I understand it recording off-air remains technically illegal* although they say they won't normally prosecute if it's for own use. But I suspect they could prosecute if they wanted to.

*I understand it is legal to make recordings off-air for the sole purpose of time shifting (ie viewing at a later time) - which would presumably exclude space-shifting (uie watching at a different location).

Since when did TV Licensing concern themselves with alleged copyright theft?

I wouldn't have suggested it if I didn't think it was acceptable both from a copyright standpoint and a TV Licensing one.

More generally, if TVL are saying that a payment of £24 is okay for 1 month's TV Licence validity, then that sounds like a potential solution, and as a one-off could be more economical than buying new equipment or new broadband access to get to a LLF solution.

People are otherwise confusing themselves over the Licence refunds. Bear in mind that a 12 month Licence is being purchased - even in the case of payment by instalments. The refund (of unused quarters) relates to this 12 month Licence. Thus, cancelling the monthly DD scheme requires a somewhat complicated calculation that assesses both the size of the underlying refund, and the amount by which the account is in credit due to advance instalments.

After the first 6 months, the refunds adhere to a regular structure of: £48.50 in month 7, and every 3 months thereafter, £60.62 in month 8, and every 3 months thereafter, and £72.75 in month 9 and every 3 months thereafter.

I would have expected TVL to insist that the Licence is valid only in chunks of 3 & 6 months, in which case, the following schedule should apply (accepting that TVL have already stated than month 1 is a special case)...

Month 2: £12.12
Month 3: £36.75
Month 4: £25.25
Month 5: £48.50
Month 6: £72.75

E&OE

It makes a certain amount of sense for them to treat Month 1 as a special case, as otherwise it would result in the tricky and counter-intuitive situation where cancelling would leave the erstwhile Licence-payer in debt to TVL for a further £12.12. After month 1, Licence-payers are always in credit, relative to the proportion of their Licence already elapsed, which simplifies cancellation down to how large a refund is due.

Cornucopia

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Obviously the rule about unused quarters may have changed to months in the last year.

I don't think so. Certainly, their website still talks about refunds in terms of full, unused quarters.

I think they simply make Month 1 a special case for administrative convenience.

[Deleted User]

If I had a holiday home, the last thing I'd have there is a TV or other AV equipment.

A holiday home is, for me, a place to get away from the rat race, for a while.

Zapito

Cornucopia wrote: »

More generally, if TVL are saying that a payment of £24 is okay for 1 month's TV Licence validity, then that sounds like a potential solution,

The woman in my second call definitely agreed with the simple proposition I put to her, that the first six months would each be two month's money, and that the original method discussed with Dominic would work (and be OK with them). Doesn't mean she was right of course, staff members of firms are often reluctant to admit to not knowing the answer to a question put to them. But both of them gave a similar response to the general idea, in different calls.

and as a one-off could be more economical than buying new equipment or new broadband access to get to a LLF solution.

Well of course, lots of folk nowadays could use their smart-phone to get access to the internet.

Personally I think they ought to offer special one-month licences for existing licensees with holiday homes etc. plus, generally, they should charge the monthly direct debit in arrears, like most firms do (some used to even offer a small discount for such a direct debit).

I'm wondering what happens with the 75+ licence - I see there's a "short term" licence you can get when you are 74 that lasts until you become 75, but I'm curious to know whether that too is in 3-month chunks. I think when my day comes I'll stop the Direct Debit once I reckon I've finished paying for my final year's licence. Why should I depend on them for a refund, specially when it's terms are against me?

I don't see on what basis they claim the right to only give refunds in 3-month chunks anyway. Needs investigation IMHO.

Cornucopia

Zapito wrote: »

Personally I think they ought to offer special one-month licences for existing licensees with holiday homes etc. plus, generally, they should charge the monthly direct debit in arrears, like most firms do (some used to even offer a small discount for such a direct debit).

The terms of the instalment plans are set in Legislation. I don't think the BBC has any discretion over them.

I'm wondering what happens with the 75+ licence...

The over-74 Licence lasts for the number of individual months necessary to take someone from the expiry of their previous normal Licence up to the start of their over-75 free Licence. It costs £12.12 per month.

I don't see on what basis they claim the right to only give refunds in 3-month chunks anyway. Needs investigation IMHO.

I don't think that is set in Legislation. However S.364(1) of the Communications Act gives the BBC discretion over all the Ts & Cs of Licences.

The biggest problem with the instalment plans is how complicated they are. I suspect that the vast majority of the Public do not understand exactly how they work.

Zapito

Cornucopia wrote: »

Zapito wrote: »

I'm wondering what happens with the 75+ licence...

The over-74 Licence lasts for the number of individual months necessary to take someone from the expiry of their previous normal Licence up to the start of their over-75 free Licence. It costs £12.12 per month.

OK, great, thanks for that. I wasn't able to find that info on their website.

My whole draft plan about that would be pointless then. I'll just need to tell 'em when I'm 74 (some way to go as yet), and I guess they'll sort it out. But it would still be better if they could also offer short-term licences for holiday homes, as well as self-catering lets and so on.