TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia

MothballsWallet said:

Well, I received my first letter from TV Licensing addressed to "Current Occupier", even though I confirmed "No Licence Required" on their website about a month ago. They're doing the usual threat of an investigation unless I contact them to buy a licence (that I don't need) or update details (which I don't need to do).

I feel a formal complaint to Capita and copying in my MP coming on - it;s a good job I keep copies of everything...

BlackBeltBarrister has pretty much the same scenario in his most recent TVL video.   He's considering legal options.

mr._prude

Regarding live TV, there are alot of apps that allow you to watch tv channels that are non UK broadcasted terrestrial channels.

Some channels seem to be just spooling episodes of a series continually. FAST( free add supported TV)

Samsung TV Plus app 
Plex TV app 
Pluto TV app 
LG TV / Xumo app  
Rakuten TV app

Do you still need a TV licence to watch these?

WillowLeaf

I'm no expert but I believe you would need one.

They're being broadcast live, ie they're not on-demand.  You get what is being sent.

That applies whether it's UK based or not. The fact they're recycling the same stuff, well that's just the BBC's model they're copying

I could be wrong though...

Cornucopia

mr._prude said:

Regarding live TV, there are alot of apps that allow you to watch tv channels that are non UK broadcasted terrestrial channels.

Some channels seem to be just spooling episodes of a series continually. FAST( free add supported TV)

Samsung TV Plus app 
Plex TV app 
Pluto TV app 
LG TV / Xumo app  
Rakuten TV app

Do you still need a TV licence to watch these?

If they are actually concurrent to broadcast channels in whatever their home country is, then TV Licensing would say you need a Licence to stream them.  

But if they exist only as the stream that you are viewing then you don't need a Licence. 

Disclaimer:  TV Licensing have tried to obfuscate away from this definition.   But they do that kind of thing.

mta999

The key to needing a licence is that they are being broadcast on air at the same time as they are being spooled.

So if Coronation Street is being broadcast on ITV at 7pm and the same episode as being spooled at the same time then you need a license

Or if neighbours is being shown in Sydney Australia at 7 a.m. UK time and you're also watching it spooled at the same time then you need a license

WillowLeaf

That's right, but Amazon Prime for example shows 'live TV' (some is actually happening right now such as sport, and some are their 'channels'). You need a TV licence for those. You don't need one for watching on-demand films and series though.

There is no concept in the Amazon example of it being 'broadcast on air' and you watching it at the same time, which is what the ask was in relation to Samsung TV, Plex etc.
 

Cornucopia

WillowLeaf said:

That's right, but Amazon Prime for example shows 'live TV' (some is actually happening right now such as sport, and some are their 'channels'). You need a TV licence for those. You don't need one for watching on-demand films and series though.

There is no concept in the Amazon example of it being 'broadcast on air' and you watching it at the same time, which is what the ask was in relation to Samsung TV, Plex etc.
 

I agree that the BBC says that "Amazon Prime" requires a Licence, and when pressed they probably narrow that down to "live" content.   Even then, I'm not sure their position is supported by the law.

The reason is exactly as you say:  the content is not being broadcast on air.  i.e. by traditional broadcast means of satellite, terrestrial or cable TV.  

I accept that what is likely to be the true answer (that the content is licensable if it is being broadcast on air anywhere by any TV channel) is too complicated legally and practically.  

WillowLeaf

It's an interesting one. BlackBeltBarrister on YouTube tried to get some answers. He asked TV Licencing if he went live on YouTube whether that counts as live broadcasting, they said No as he is not a 'broadcaster'. He asked whether a broadcaster is defined as having a broadcast on air, they said No, it can be online-only companies as well (say Amazon). He asked if there is a list of companies that count as broadcasters, they said they don't have one.

So not clear, and I'm sure they intentionally like it that way to create doubt, and like you say they might be on dodgy ground with their definitions so prefer not to say too much.

My own view is that if it's something you select, thats on-demand and doesn't require a licence (unless its on iPlayer). If it's something the broadcaster is 'broadcasting' on their 'channel', whether online only, via the airwaves, UK or abroad, then it does require a licence.

Cornucopia

Fundamentally, though, the rules must be defined in legislation.   Whilst the BBC may, to an extent, interpret that legislation they should provide the Public with a clear source.

Their comments to Black Belt Barrister about some kind of qualitative measure of whether something is broadcasting or not is pure fiction, AFAIK.

mta999

"No, it can be online-only companies as well (say Amazon)...."

The TV license is a license to receive a broadcast (RF) signal. It was updated to include iPlayer, and also to say that if you are receiving a program over the internet at the same time as it was being broadcast and that would be a requirement to have a license

So if the BBC are transmissing "Strictly" and at the same time Amazon is transmissing exactly the same program online then yes you would need a license to watch it online with Amazon