Wibo night storage heaters

Cardew

pri1980 wrote: »

.)
4) contract that is difficult to get out but i will check with legal if i can do smth. Otherwise i shall to pay cancellation fees or take this device.

Not sure I understand all of your post, but if you have just signed for these heaters, you can cancel.

More detail of the contract please - not why you don't want them.

pri1980

Cardew wrote: »

Not sure I understand all of your post, but if you have just signed for these heaters, you can cancel.

More detail of the contract please - not why you don't want them.

i am not in UK. we can withdraw signature within 7 days only (no matter if delivered or not). this is fair in principle assuming that there is a court for other cases. i have an impression after reading contract, talking to them and reading internet that they perfectly know what they are doing. i still need to check with legal what i can do against them.

I am not in a mood to copy all contract details. In any cases i might send their adds and contract to authorities.

pri1980

here is a copy from german website for those who know german, others can translate with on-line translators. no comments

taken from: energie-bewusstsein dot de

---

Nun ist der Thread zwar schön älter, das Thema aber noch immer aktuell.
Das LG Stuttgart ist jüngst in einem Urteil im Januar 2010 der Argumentation von WIBO gefolgt dass das Ausstecken von Elektroheizungen ein Bedienungsfehler ist!
In vorliegenden Fall wollte der Kunde vom Kaufvertrag zurücktreten weil der Funkthermostat nach nur 14 Tagen nicht mehr funktionierte und Wibo diesen nicht wieder in Betrieb nehmen konnte. Ursache dafür sei das ständige Ausstecken der Heizung durch den Kunden weil ihm im beim Betrieb immer die Sicherung rausflog. Dadurch habe der Thermostat die Funkverbindung dauerhaft verloren. Nach zwei Reparaturversuchen wollte der Kunde die Geräte nicht mehr haben und wollte vom Vertrag zurücktreten.
Weil es sich aber nicht um einem Mangel, sondern um einen Bedienungsfehler handele, so WIBO, sei ein Vertragsrücktritt nicht gerechtfertig. Die vorsitzende Richterin schien diesem Argument zu folgen und lehnte einen Rücktritt vom Kaufvertrag ebenfalls ab.
Eine Rückabwicklung erwägt WIBO nur unter der Bedingung, dass der Kunde für die 14 Tägige Abnutzung einen Betrag von mindestens 1000.- EURO bezahlt sowie eine Haftung dafür übernimmt, dass die Geräte in den fast 2 Jahren die sie ungenutzt herumstanden, nicht stärkere als im 14tägigem Gebrauch zu erwartendem Gebrauchsspuren aufweisen. Landgericht Stuttgart, 22.01.2010
Was das für Konsequenzen haben könnte, darüber darf man gar nicht nachdenken.

pri1980

maybe useful for some who search on WIBO. eg. ask them for comparison tests before making judgement

Prices for Noirot from 70 Euro to abot 250 Euro:

1) radiateur-online dot fr / rech.asp?num=20&mot=noirot
2) price-less dot eu

here is short descriptionfrom top-building-news dot com / ?p=2387

Company NOIROT, specializing in the manufacture of devices for heating, was founded in 1933 in Geneva (Switzerland). In 1970 NOIROT it becomes “the company number 1″ in production of heating appliances: electric heaters and convectors and move its production to Lane (France) ....

All electric heaters are equipped with the latest NOIROT heating element RX-Silence PLUS ®. This element is made of special material silumin - alloy of aluminum and silicon. This material provides an unlimited period of operation of the heating element, because it has the superior corrosion resistance in humid environments and provides exceptionally low coefficient of thermal expansion. Special “coquinoid” coating for increasing of the area of heat transfer reduces the temperature of the heating element to the minimum values. As a result, the modern heaters NOIROT not only create the comfortable soft warmth, but also work with the highest efficiency (90%).

harryhound

harryhound wrote: »

This was my reply last year to someone needing to renew 4-6-4 sealed units in 1980's windows (unfortunately my supplier has been taken over since):

If you can do it yourself, it is not expensive.

In the last year I have done my windows for 27.55 per sq meter PLUS VAT.
That was using ordinary glass on the outside and GUARDIAN (see web site) heat saving glass on the inside.

If you have patio doors or low window cills you are required to use toughened glass these days.

(My windows are wooden, so the job takes me a long time. The units should be mounted on blocks, especially the opening casement windows.
You might be able to get more free advice on say the Screwfix site)

Beware of all this talk of Vacuum between the glass. Houses with this system tend to look very strange in the sunshine, as the glass is slightly bowed inwards by the vacuum. My units have air in the gap and water absorbing stuff in the metal beading that holds the glass together. Specialist inert gases can be used if you want to screw the last little bit of energy saving out of the units but I would not bother. Double glazing has never been an economic proposition on energy saving alone, good thick curtains are the first step BUT it does stop the condensation running down the glass, because of the high temperature inside the house and all the draught stripping you have installed.

"glass panels are closer together in the centre". It is pretty obvious if you have this problem at this time of year. On cold nights, the misting of the internal surface starts in the middle, rather than round the edges, next to the aluminium spacers between the glass. There is a firm in Edinburgh that uses insulated spacers to avoid the cold bridge caused by the aluminium, but it was not realistic for me to explore that option.

I just thought I would bring this forward from 2007 to let you know how I'm getting on.
One unit in one of my 13 windows has cracked across the corner of the inside sheet of glass and so will need replacing. Not sure why, possibly because of house movement (I'm built on heavy clay and some of my foundations go down only 18" :eek: )
"Warm edge" has now gone mainstream - think I will try it on the replacement unit.
(hope the FENSA police are not reading this )

TTFN

Harry

harryhound

thills wrote: »

ASHP's are ideal for flats with no gas supply. Heat loss is just less than a house. Problem is the planning consent, every other flat in the block has to be notified, even if they are very remote from the installation. Rightly, those who could be affected by the noise should be consulted. Modern units are fairly quiet & when working hardest, winter, people tend to have windows closed. I am hoping to go this route, there are only 6 in my block, 3 would never be affected. None are objecting, 3 others are seriously interested in doing the same once they understand.

What make are you going for?
These are the posh Japanese ones using "inverter" technology.
They were boasting at "ecobuild" about their new offering especially for flats.
(Extra quiet?)
If you can get all the flats in board you should get a discount and they won't be complaining about each other's noise, because they are jealous. Soon it will be possible to borrow the money for "nothing" and leave the debt behind when you move.
http://www.daikin.co.uk/references/items/Luminus_Housing.jsp

More pitfalls here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=30678117#post30678117

thills

Hi HH. When I get the approval, 90% ecodan, but daikin is a lot cheaper & does much the same job, think the HWC costs a lot less. Chances of getting a"group" acting at the same time, none. Lot of people need to see first, I think. Yes, there are pitfalls, but if you only have electricity, they are minor.

harryhound

I think we are getting a thread about dodgy over priced heaters a bit off topic.
If you want to start a new thread about putting ASHP into flats (as an alternative to expensive to run night storage, not to mention energy poverty levels of cost for day time electric heating) and put a link to it from here; I will come and make appropriate remarks to help it along.

stephenmrot

Dear Cardew,

If you stand in a room with a one KW iron in each hand-will it heat the room? You keep repeating the same argument but it is essentially wrong. Secondly I am a great believer in trying something before knocking it have you done so?

rgds

Stephen

Cardew

stephenmrot wrote: »

Dear Cardew,

If you stand in a room with a one KW iron in each hand-will it heat the room? You keep repeating the same argument but it is essentially wrong. Secondly I am a great believer in trying something before knocking it have you done so?

rgds

Stephen

Welcome to the forum - nice to see a constructive first post. Such posts are often from those with a vested interest in selling such products - would that be the case with your contribution?

As many thousands of people read this website, with new ones every day, it does no harm to repeat and repeat facts.

You are correct about the the 1kW iron producing the same heat as any other 1kW heating device(provided you bypass the thermostat) not certain it would have a very long life though!!

Would you care to elaborate why my argument is 'essentially wrong'? Have the laws of physics changed recently?